6 ms·

I may have some of the facts wrong here, but I think this means that upgraded systems will also start to run Microsoft's evergreen browser Edge, in place of IE,

I may have some of the facts wrong here, but I think this means that upgraded systems will also start to run Microsoft's evergreen browser Edge, in place of IE, as the default browser. It seems like this aspect, at least, could be a very good thing. Thinking about the very non-technical and casual user who uses the default IE and doesn't upgrade/switch for no particular reason other than some mixture of doesn't know it'll be better/afraid of breaking something/doesn't know how. It'll just kill all those IE 8s/9s/10s still running out there that, really, should be replaced. Yes, it's a little brute force, but I can't see this being anything other than a good thing for (the vast majority of) these users and for developers.

geerlingguy 11y ago
...Except that Edge is the new IE, in some bad ways. Sure, many bugs and missing features will be fixed and added in the coming months/years, but there are already a number of hacks that need to be made to properly support Edge with similar functionality as FF, Chrome and Safari. All that's old is new.
- jimueller 11y ago
  No, what's new is that those bugs and missing features will get fixed without an OS service pack / release.
lucb1e 11y ago
> I can't see this being anything other than a good thing for (the vast majority of) these users and for developers. For developers? I think they are quite capable of deciding for themselves. For users? Here I can see where you're coming from, but let's think this through: - Some users know how stuff works. They'll upgrade when they want to, no need to force them. - Some users have no clue about how stuff works, but they know someone who does (e.g. my grandma and me). If there would be an opt-out of this forced upgrade, that someone (me) could perform that on their computer and upgrade them when they're ready. But there is no opt out, so instead they (me) will have a hell of an explaining job on their hands. It might actually be the perfect excuse to install Ubuntu since the only reason not to is because they're "used to Windows now". And remember, this group didn't need a forced upgrade in the first place since they have someone who helps them stay up to date and does stuff that needs doing. - Some users have no clue and have nobody to help them. There's no point trying to get them the latest updates when they'll click accept on anything their screen tells them to accept (e.g. fake flash update). Some protection is better than none and thus Edge is better than IE8, I agree on that, but I'm not sure there is that much of a point. And they may become unable to use a computer altogether with a disruptive change like this. In other words, nobody benefits. Maybe not even Microsoft, but I can't tell yet.
- davnicwil 11y ago
  > For developers? I think they are quite capable of deciding for themselves. Sorry, to be clear on this I mean devs building the stuff users use, as in no more need to support older, less standards-compliant, less fully-featured browsers. It saves an incredible amount of effort, time, money and stress. I'm not even saying Edge is good, I'm just saying it's evergreen and regardless of its current state you'd hope it will only improve in these areas over time, and getting users on it removes the upgrade issue now and forevermore. As for the three categories, I'm emphatically talking about the last one, which is absolutely massive. I used to work at a company where a significant proportion of our userbase was composed of this type of person. Lots of money is wasted on this problem, which is so easy to fix. It's a hugely important consideration, unless your market is developers or technologists, in which case this isn't an issue at all.
  - lucb1e 11y ago
    > I'm emphatically talking about the last [category], which is absolutely massive. I used to work at a company where a significant proportion of our userbase was composed of this type of person. Lots of money is wasted on this problem, which is so easy to fix. I see what you mean but still, an opt-out button would pretty much solve everything. Forcing everyone is just a bad move I think.

geerlingguy 11y ago

...Except that Edge is the new IE, in some bad ways. Sure, many bugs and missing features will be fixed and added in the coming months/years, but there are already a number of hacks that need to be made to properly support Edge with similar functionality as FF, Chrome and Safari. All that's old is new.

jimueller 11y ago
No, what's new is that those bugs and missing features will get fixed without an OS service pack / release.

lucb1e 11y ago

> I can't see this being anything other than a good thing for (the vast majority of) these users and for developers. For developers? I think they are quite capable of deciding for themselves. For users? Here I can see where you're coming from, but let's think this through: - Some users know how stuff works. They'll upgrade when they want to, no need to force them. - Some users have no clue about how stuff works, but they know someone who does (e.g. my grandma and me). If there would be an opt-out of this forced upgrade, that someone (me) could perform that on their computer and upgrade them when they're ready. But there is no opt out, so instead they (me) will have a hell of an explaining job on their hands. It might actually be the perfect excuse to install Ubuntu since the only reason not to is because they're "used to Windows now". And remember, this group didn't need a forced upgrade in the first place since they have someone who helps them stay up to date and does stuff that needs doing. - Some users have no clue and have nobody to help them. There's no point trying to get them the latest updates when they'll click accept on anything their screen tells them to accept (e.g. fake flash update). Some protection is better than none and thus Edge is better than IE8, I agree on that, but I'm not sure there is that much of a point. And they may become unable to use a computer altogether with a disruptive change like this. In other words, nobody benefits. Maybe not even Microsoft, but I can't tell yet.

davnicwil 11y ago
> For developers? I think they are quite capable of deciding for themselves. Sorry, to be clear on this I mean devs building the stuff users use, as in no more need to support older, less standards-compliant, less fully-featured browsers. It saves an incredible amount of effort, time, money and stress. I'm not even saying Edge is good, I'm just saying it's evergreen and regardless of its current state you'd hope it will only improve in these areas over time, and getting users on it removes the upgrade issue now and forevermore. As for the three categories, I'm emphatically talking about the last one, which is absolutely massive. I used to work at a company where a significant proportion of our userbase was composed of this type of person. Lots of money is wasted on this problem, which is so easy to fix. It's a hugely important consideration, unless your market is developers or technologists, in which case this isn't an issue at all.
- lucb1e 11y ago
  > I'm emphatically talking about the last [category], which is absolutely massive. I used to work at a company where a significant proportion of our userbase was composed of this type of person. Lots of money is wasted on this problem, which is so easy to fix. I see what you mean but still, an opt-out button would pretty much solve everything. Forcing everyone is just a bad move I think.