5 ms·

> While switching to a new OS, especially Windows 10 is definitely a good move Who is claiming this? Maybe for hardware known to have good Windows 10 support

by peeters 11y ago

> While switching to a new OS, especially Windows 10 is definitely a good move Who is claiming this? Maybe for hardware known to have good Windows 10 support it's a good move. For me, I've had more blue screens in the last month than I had in the 10 years before that. Lots of poor driver support (fingerprint reader doesn't work, touchpad reverts settings after every boot, crashes). The user experience is an upgrade from my perspective, but the upgrade has been anything but painless.

scrollaway 11y ago
When I installed windows 10 last week I had the .. pleasure... to look at the various privacy options. During the installation, Windows uses weasel words to present the user with privacy settings hiding the option to change them at all. Take a look: https://jonathan.porta.codes/images/posts/2015/07/window-10-privacy-settings-1.png https://jonathan.porta.codes/images/posts/2015/07/window-10-... In "express settings": * Send contact, calendar and input data to Microsoft * Send typing and inking data to Microsoft * Let apps use your Advertising ID for "experiences across apps" (I'm not making this shit up) * Send microsoft and "trusted partners" location data * Turn on SmartScreen (Admittedly I don't know exactly how it works but seeing as it's in those options I can take a horrifying guess on the implications) * Send your browsing data to Microsoft to "make your overall experience better" (WTF wording) * Autoconnect to shared networks * Autoconnect to suggested open hotspots Damn. And then, one that's not in there which you have to find for yourself, if you even know about it: P2P share windows updates with any windows computer on the internet. Ho-ly-crap. I like W10 as an OS so far but this stuff is just insane. BTW, the only reason I went with W10 was that W7 doesn't support GPT. Sources: http://www.howtogeek.com/224352/what%E2%80%99s-the-difference-between-windows-10%E2%80%99s-express-or-custom-setup/ http://www.howtogeek.com/224352/what%E2%80%99s-the-differenc... http://www.howtogeek.com/224981/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-uploading-updates-to-other-pcs-over-the-internet/ http://www.howtogeek.com/224981/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-... Edit: Yikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SmartScreen#SmartScreen_in_Windows_8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SmartScreen#SmartScr...
- brazzledazzle 11y ago
  >P2P share windows updates with any windows computer on the internet I'm not sure that concerns me since they're doing signature verification on the data before doing anything with it.
  - ebbv 11y ago
    I think you're missing the point of concern here. That would be one, but let's just hope that Microsoft is smart enough to validate the data gotten from P2P updates. That still brings up the issue that Microsoft is leveraging my broadband connection, my power and my computer(s) that I pay for to issue updates to their customers without even asking. That's not ok.
    - togusa 11y ago
      Definitely. My mother has a 3gb cap on her broadband every month and this is going to basically break it. Fuck them for even daring to do this. It's authoritarian arrogance, nothing more.
    - brazzledazzle 11y ago
      That's a great point.
- newman314 11y ago
  I posted this in a different thread yesterday but am reposting here for the folks that do move to Win10. -- PSA: For people with Windows 10 installed, I've found the following tool quite useful in shutting down the large amount of information collected. http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    Thank you. That looks great.
chrisseaton 11y ago
Would you still want to delay updating if Microsoft stopped all security updates for the previous version of Windows after releasing the new one? I think only supporting one version at a time has a lot of benefits like being able to focus on development and security for just one version. And I think we might all be better off collectively if everyone just upgraded straight away.
- scrollaway 11y ago
  I want to point out that this logic is based on the implication that newer is more secure, and that isn't always True, especially in closed source products. Many apps have gone from generally-good software to adware in a coupe of auto-updates. Similar things could happen to Windows - in fact, the privacy issues I pointed out in the post below are a facet of that.
  - chrisseaton 11y ago
    No that's not what I said. I didn't imply that newer is more secure. I said if Microsoft spent its efforts on securing just Windows 10, instead of Windows 10, 8, 7, Vista and XP all the same time the results might be better. That's not newness - it's resourcing. The same would be true if they put everyone onto Windows XP instead.
- AnthonyMouse 11y ago
  Most people only want the security updates. You can tout the new features of Windows 10 all you like, but most people don't actually need them and the short-term value of the new features is less than the retraining cost of learning how to use them. Incurring that up-front retraining cost on a frequent basis causes you to never come out ahead. This is why everyone kept using Windows XP until it was completely unsupported and Windows 7 is the new Windows XP. If anything what people want are less frequent releases with longer support periods. Or at least designate specific infrequent releases like Windows 7 for multi-decade long-term support -- if they would do that then they could reduce the support period for the non-LTS releases and end up supporting fewer versions at once.
ladzoppelin 11y ago
Dell,Lenovo and HP have completely dropped the ball with drivers for Windows 10. Its not horrible but at the same time not perfect. I will be ordering as many Surface book's as I can get once they are available. I think an office with 50% Surface Books and 50% Macbook Pros is progress. Not saying it will fix it for sure , but a bios update and complete format/re-install (after you already activated Windows 10 from an upgrade) remedies the blue screens for the Dell/HP/Lenovo laptops we have onsite.
- josu 11y ago
  I have an Asus laptop and I had to perform black magic in order to get the mini jack audio out to work.
ekianjo 11y ago
> The user experience is an upgrade from my perspective, but the upgrade has been anything but painless. Especially the spying experience is an upgrade. Thanks to the excellent relationship between the NSA and Microsoft. Nice try, Nadella, to make us believe Microsoft has changed.
brazzledazzle 11y ago
I don't even bother upgrading Windows on laptops. It's better to wait until all of the drivers are fully supported by the manufacturer then do a clean install. I don't know what Microsoft is thinking. Laptops are incredibly fragile from a driver perspective because of all the non-standard and model specific things they do.
- currysausage 11y ago
  Actually, most things laptops do are pretty generic, but manufacturers seem obsessed about owning the "experience" of doing the most basic things. My ThinkPad T430 runs Windows 10 without any Lenovo crapware, and it's such a smooth experience. No more invisible windows randomly popping up in the taskbar, stealing my keyboard focus, no more dozens of TPCRAP.EXE in my autostart.
  - smilekzs 11y ago
    Do you use TrackPoint? If you do, these drivers are inevitable. Considering how fragile and inconsistent across models and versions they are I'd say good luck. Nice coinage: "TPCRAP.EXE"
    - currysausage 11y ago
      I did install device software that came via Windows Update (mostly unobtrusive stuff), and you're right, I did install the "UltraNav"-branded Synaptics drivers manually from lenovo.com. They are abysmal [1], but still less so than the Synaptics driver that came via WU. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10303162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10303162
- DanBC 11y ago
  But are they actually doing non-standard stuff? On a new ASUS X205ta ("Windows 8.1 with Bing") the audio drivers are broken, and which don't have Linux drivers yet. (at least, the websites I read from July suggest that.)
agumonkey 11y ago
Microsoft has been pushing to put himself back into the stage lights (open source, surface pro|book engineering). If they were willing to really give users help and resources, maybe deals for hardware upgrade so customers have the smoothest upgrade possible it would make a difference. Musk have been doing this with Tesla, every time something caused troubles, he gave it for "free".

by peeters 11y ago

scrollaway 11y ago

When I installed windows 10 last week I had the .. pleasure... to look at the various privacy options. During the installation, Windows uses weasel words to present the user with privacy settings hiding the option to change them at all. Take a look: https://jonathan.porta.codes/images/posts/2015/07/window-10-privacy-settings-1.png https://jonathan.porta.codes/images/posts/2015/07/window-10-... In "express settings": * Send contact, calendar and input data to Microsoft * Send typing and inking data to Microsoft * Let apps use your Advertising ID for "experiences across apps" (I'm not making this shit up) * Send microsoft and "trusted partners" location data * Turn on SmartScreen (Admittedly I don't know exactly how it works but seeing as it's in those options I can take a horrifying guess on the implications) * Send your browsing data to Microsoft to "make your overall experience better" (WTF wording) * Autoconnect to shared networks * Autoconnect to suggested open hotspots Damn. And then, one that's not in there which you have to find for yourself, if you even know about it: P2P share windows updates with any windows computer on the internet. Ho-ly-crap. I like W10 as an OS so far but this stuff is just insane. BTW, the only reason I went with W10 was that W7 doesn't support GPT. Sources: http://www.howtogeek.com/224352/what%E2%80%99s-the-difference-between-windows-10%E2%80%99s-express-or-custom-setup/ http://www.howtogeek.com/224352/what%E2%80%99s-the-differenc... http://www.howtogeek.com/224981/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-uploading-updates-to-other-pcs-over-the-internet/ http://www.howtogeek.com/224981/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-... Edit: Yikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SmartScreen#SmartScreen_in_Windows_8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SmartScreen#SmartScr...

brazzledazzle 11y ago
>P2P share windows updates with any windows computer on the internet I'm not sure that concerns me since they're doing signature verification on the data before doing anything with it.
- ebbv 11y ago
  I think you're missing the point of concern here. That would be one, but let's just hope that Microsoft is smart enough to validate the data gotten from P2P updates. That still brings up the issue that Microsoft is leveraging my broadband connection, my power and my computer(s) that I pay for to issue updates to their customers without even asking. That's not ok.
  - togusa 11y ago
    Definitely. My mother has a 3gb cap on her broadband every month and this is going to basically break it. Fuck them for even daring to do this. It's authoritarian arrogance, nothing more.
  - brazzledazzle 11y ago
    That's a great point.
newman314 11y ago
I posted this in a different thread yesterday but am reposting here for the folks that do move to Win10. -- PSA: For people with Windows 10 installed, I've found the following tool quite useful in shutting down the large amount of information collected. http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
- scrollaway 11y ago
  Thank you. That looks great.

chrisseaton 11y ago

Would you still want to delay updating if Microsoft stopped all security updates for the previous version of Windows after releasing the new one? I think only supporting one version at a time has a lot of benefits like being able to focus on development and security for just one version. And I think we might all be better off collectively if everyone just upgraded straight away.

scrollaway 11y ago
I want to point out that this logic is based on the implication that newer is more secure, and that isn't always True, especially in closed source products. Many apps have gone from generally-good software to adware in a coupe of auto-updates. Similar things could happen to Windows - in fact, the privacy issues I pointed out in the post below are a facet of that.
- chrisseaton 11y ago
  No that's not what I said. I didn't imply that newer is more secure. I said if Microsoft spent its efforts on securing just Windows 10, instead of Windows 10, 8, 7, Vista and XP all the same time the results might be better. That's not newness - it's resourcing. The same would be true if they put everyone onto Windows XP instead.
AnthonyMouse 11y ago
Most people only want the security updates. You can tout the new features of Windows 10 all you like, but most people don't actually need them and the short-term value of the new features is less than the retraining cost of learning how to use them. Incurring that up-front retraining cost on a frequent basis causes you to never come out ahead. This is why everyone kept using Windows XP until it was completely unsupported and Windows 7 is the new Windows XP. If anything what people want are less frequent releases with longer support periods. Or at least designate specific infrequent releases like Windows 7 for multi-decade long-term support -- if they would do that then they could reduce the support period for the non-LTS releases and end up supporting fewer versions at once.

ladzoppelin 11y ago

Dell,Lenovo and HP have completely dropped the ball with drivers for Windows 10. Its not horrible but at the same time not perfect. I will be ordering as many Surface book's as I can get once they are available. I think an office with 50% Surface Books and 50% Macbook Pros is progress. Not saying it will fix it for sure , but a bios update and complete format/re-install (after you already activated Windows 10 from an upgrade) remedies the blue screens for the Dell/HP/Lenovo laptops we have onsite.

josu 11y ago
I have an Asus laptop and I had to perform black magic in order to get the mini jack audio out to work.

ekianjo 11y ago

> The user experience is an upgrade from my perspective, but the upgrade has been anything but painless. Especially the spying experience is an upgrade. Thanks to the excellent relationship between the NSA and Microsoft. Nice try, Nadella, to make us believe Microsoft has changed.

brazzledazzle 11y ago

I don't even bother upgrading Windows on laptops. It's better to wait until all of the drivers are fully supported by the manufacturer then do a clean install. I don't know what Microsoft is thinking. Laptops are incredibly fragile from a driver perspective because of all the non-standard and model specific things they do.

currysausage 11y ago
Actually, most things laptops do are pretty generic, but manufacturers seem obsessed about owning the "experience" of doing the most basic things. My ThinkPad T430 runs Windows 10 without any Lenovo crapware, and it's such a smooth experience. No more invisible windows randomly popping up in the taskbar, stealing my keyboard focus, no more dozens of TPCRAP.EXE in my autostart.
- smilekzs 11y ago
  Do you use TrackPoint? If you do, these drivers are inevitable. Considering how fragile and inconsistent across models and versions they are I'd say good luck. Nice coinage: "TPCRAP.EXE"
  - currysausage 11y ago
    I did install device software that came via Windows Update (mostly unobtrusive stuff), and you're right, I did install the "UltraNav"-branded Synaptics drivers manually from lenovo.com. They are abysmal [1], but still less so than the Synaptics driver that came via WU. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10303162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10303162
DanBC 11y ago
But are they actually doing non-standard stuff? On a new ASUS X205ta ("Windows 8.1 with Bing") the audio drivers are broken, and which don't have Linux drivers yet. (at least, the websites I read from July suggest that.)

agumonkey 11y ago

Microsoft has been pushing to put himself back into the stage lights (open source, surface pro|book engineering). If they were willing to really give users help and resources, maybe deals for hardware upgrade so customers have the smoothest upgrade possible it would make a difference. Musk have been doing this with Tesla, every time something caused troubles, he gave it for "free".