7 ms·

It's hard not to exaggerate the implications of this study if fungal infection does turn out to be the cause of AD given how huge this would be for humanity. Ju

It's hard not to exaggerate the implications of this study if fungal infection does turn out to be the cause of AD given how huge this would be for humanity. Just off the top of my head I can say this disease has effected my family (1 set of grandparents effected by this disease so far) so I'd like for the conclusion to be correct. I guess the next step would be testing the hypothesis with more people with AD to see if it holds up and then somehow getting approval to do drug trials (and I'm sure there will be no shortage of volunteers.) I can almost see a clamouring of families trying to get their hands on anti-fungal drugs in the future in the hope that it helps their loved ones but we simply won't know if this will help until there's more data. Hoping for a break through. It's certainly not without precedent that we find something extremely simple / obvious that turns out to be the key. On a side note: it's interesting to think that the crack pots you see writing about candidas infections being the cause of numerous hard-to-treat illnesses -might- actually be right (in a sense.)

chetanahuja 11y ago
The discovery, if corroborated by others, could indeed be huge but I'm afraid it wouldn't open up new treatment options anytime soon. Fungal infections inside the body are really really hard to treat in the first place. Add to that the blood-brain barrier which makes it very hard to treat any type of infection in the brain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood%E2%80%93brain_barrier#Function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood%E2%80%93brain_barrier#Fu... Combination of these two factors sadly means that short of major breakthroughs in fungal antibiotic research or in drug delivery to the brain, Alzheimer is not likely to suddenly become more treatable even if the fungal infection theory proves to be true.
- shostack 11y ago
  Would the recent discovery of lymphatic tubes going into our brains[1] be a potential area of focus for potential treatment? [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9647253 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9647253
  - gus_massa 11y ago
    The article is not 100% clear, but I think the flux in the lymphatic tubes goes from the brain to outside, as in the other organs. So it will not be useful to send medicine inside the brain. The article describe an alternative theory for Alzheimer > In Alzheimer’s, there are accumulations of big protein chunks in the brain. We think they may be accumulating in the brain because they’re not being efficiently removed by these vessels.
- kevinalexbrown 11y ago
  First, there are antifungal drugs that pass the BBB, with varying efficacy: https://www.medicine.wisc.edu/sites/default/files/domfiles/infectiousdisease/EMT030408.pdf https://www.medicine.wisc.edu/sites/default/files/domfiles/i... Second, antifungals have positively affected AD-like symptoms, though possibly through misdiagnosis.
  - et2o 11y ago
    It's known to be pretty difficult to treat a lot of fungal infections in the CNS. The agents we have are pretty nasty, with severe side effects.
    - kevinalexbrown 11y ago
      totally - but if you can effectively treat a substantial percentage, that's huge. And some effective antifungals have what many consider tolerable in the face of AD.
    - solofounder7 11y ago
      I'm a hacker not a doctor but I've done some research into water purification, and here is what I've learned: The body is mostly water. The task of removing microorganisms and fungus from water has been well studied. Science knows of effective agents which are proven to purify water of micro-organisms like bacteria and also fungus. Some of these are being utilized in public water decontamination, and others while also effective are not used because they are less cost efficient to produce. Water purifying agents have a varying range of effectiveness and also and a varying range of toxicity to the human body. There are a couple of agents in particular however which are both well tolerated by the body and are also remarkably effective at decontaminating water. The one which my research indicates leads the pack in this area is a white crystalline salt named Potassium Iodide, KI. KI has been used widely by both the military and by campers in portable water decontamination. A solution of Potassium Iodide in water (known colloquially as Iodine) was a leading and apparently very effective drug during the 19th century in the United States. There are doctors today who prescribe milligram doses of KI (many many times more than the RDA) to treat a wide array of ailments but especially in dermatology. They do not typically see serious side effects although they do frequently recommend monitoring thyroid levels while utilizing higher doses.
- melling 11y ago
  Could you be more specific about the timeline? I remember when people said there was nothing that could ever be done for people with HIV. My guess is that if you know a precise cause, you'll have some basic treatments within a decade and an effective "cure" within two decades.
- Retra 11y ago
  According to your link, there is a possibility that some cases of Alzheimers are caused by a degraded blood-brain barrier, which might also allow for fungal infections to take hold more readily.
- Nano2rad 11y ago
  There is no need for drugs to cross blood-brain barrier. If antifungal treatment is effective, drugs can be delivered directly to brain although that may need new series of research.
- andrewtian 11y ago
  Coconut oil seems to have benefits in Alzheimer's patients [1]. It also has anti-fungal properties. Worth a look. [1] http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_alternative_treatments.asp#Caprylic_Acid http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_alternative_treatments...
tim333 11y ago
>clamouring of families trying to get their hands on anti-fungal drugs in the future in the hope that it helps their loved ones but we simply won't know if this will help until there's more data. It may not be so hard to get data - try anti-fungals and see if the patients get better. There are plenty of patients and the drugs could be tried in countries other than the US. It could be possible to get data in a few weeks rather than years of trials. There seem to be about a dozen anti-fungals at the moment which could be tried. Presumably the best choice would depend on which fungi was involved. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17381184 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17381184
- fernly 11y ago
  > try anti-fungals and see if the patients get better I got the impression that the disease symptoms result not from the mere presence of the fungus, but from progressive damage over a long time. So, if you don't start to treat until there are symptoms, you could kill the fungus and at best, the person would not get worse. Which is not to be dismissed, but...
  - tim333 11y ago
    It's hard to know till you try it but the experiment seems easy to do and reasonably low risk - the risk from anti-fungals is probably less of a worry than dying from Alzheimer's. So it seems worth giving it a shot even if the probabilities of success are low. The nervous system seems to have some recovery abilities, more from retraining surviving neurons than growing new ones.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >So, if you don't start to treat until there are symptoms, you could kill the fungus and at best, the person would not get worse. Which is not to be dismissed, but.. It's "not to dismissed"? It's the difference between life and death!

chetanahuja 11y ago

The discovery, if corroborated by others, could indeed be huge but I'm afraid it wouldn't open up new treatment options anytime soon. Fungal infections inside the body are really really hard to treat in the first place. Add to that the blood-brain barrier which makes it very hard to treat any type of infection in the brain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood%E2%80%93brain_barrier#Function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood%E2%80%93brain_barrier#Fu... Combination of these two factors sadly means that short of major breakthroughs in fungal antibiotic research or in drug delivery to the brain, Alzheimer is not likely to suddenly become more treatable even if the fungal infection theory proves to be true.

shostack 11y ago
Would the recent discovery of lymphatic tubes going into our brains[1] be a potential area of focus for potential treatment? [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9647253 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9647253
- gus_massa 11y ago
  The article is not 100% clear, but I think the flux in the lymphatic tubes goes from the brain to outside, as in the other organs. So it will not be useful to send medicine inside the brain. The article describe an alternative theory for Alzheimer > In Alzheimer’s, there are accumulations of big protein chunks in the brain. We think they may be accumulating in the brain because they’re not being efficiently removed by these vessels.
kevinalexbrown 11y ago
First, there are antifungal drugs that pass the BBB, with varying efficacy: https://www.medicine.wisc.edu/sites/default/files/domfiles/infectiousdisease/EMT030408.pdf https://www.medicine.wisc.edu/sites/default/files/domfiles/i... Second, antifungals have positively affected AD-like symptoms, though possibly through misdiagnosis.
- et2o 11y ago
  It's known to be pretty difficult to treat a lot of fungal infections in the CNS. The agents we have are pretty nasty, with severe side effects.
  - kevinalexbrown 11y ago
    totally - but if you can effectively treat a substantial percentage, that's huge. And some effective antifungals have what many consider tolerable in the face of AD.
  - solofounder7 11y ago
    I'm a hacker not a doctor but I've done some research into water purification, and here is what I've learned: The body is mostly water. The task of removing microorganisms and fungus from water has been well studied. Science knows of effective agents which are proven to purify water of micro-organisms like bacteria and also fungus. Some of these are being utilized in public water decontamination, and others while also effective are not used because they are less cost efficient to produce. Water purifying agents have a varying range of effectiveness and also and a varying range of toxicity to the human body. There are a couple of agents in particular however which are both well tolerated by the body and are also remarkably effective at decontaminating water. The one which my research indicates leads the pack in this area is a white crystalline salt named Potassium Iodide, KI. KI has been used widely by both the military and by campers in portable water decontamination. A solution of Potassium Iodide in water (known colloquially as Iodine) was a leading and apparently very effective drug during the 19th century in the United States. There are doctors today who prescribe milligram doses of KI (many many times more than the RDA) to treat a wide array of ailments but especially in dermatology. They do not typically see serious side effects although they do frequently recommend monitoring thyroid levels while utilizing higher doses.
melling 11y ago
Could you be more specific about the timeline? I remember when people said there was nothing that could ever be done for people with HIV. My guess is that if you know a precise cause, you'll have some basic treatments within a decade and an effective "cure" within two decades.
Retra 11y ago
According to your link, there is a possibility that some cases of Alzheimers are caused by a degraded blood-brain barrier, which might also allow for fungal infections to take hold more readily.
Nano2rad 11y ago
There is no need for drugs to cross blood-brain barrier. If antifungal treatment is effective, drugs can be delivered directly to brain although that may need new series of research.
andrewtian 11y ago
Coconut oil seems to have benefits in Alzheimer's patients [1]. It also has anti-fungal properties. Worth a look. [1] http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_alternative_treatments.asp#Caprylic_Acid http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_alternative_treatments...

tim333 11y ago

>clamouring of families trying to get their hands on anti-fungal drugs in the future in the hope that it helps their loved ones but we simply won't know if this will help until there's more data. It may not be so hard to get data - try anti-fungals and see if the patients get better. There are plenty of patients and the drugs could be tried in countries other than the US. It could be possible to get data in a few weeks rather than years of trials. There seem to be about a dozen anti-fungals at the moment which could be tried. Presumably the best choice would depend on which fungi was involved. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17381184 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17381184

fernly 11y ago
> try anti-fungals and see if the patients get better I got the impression that the disease symptoms result not from the mere presence of the fungus, but from progressive damage over a long time. So, if you don't start to treat until there are symptoms, you could kill the fungus and at best, the person would not get worse. Which is not to be dismissed, but...
- tim333 11y ago
  It's hard to know till you try it but the experiment seems easy to do and reasonably low risk - the risk from anti-fungals is probably less of a worry than dying from Alzheimer's. So it seems worth giving it a shot even if the probabilities of success are low. The nervous system seems to have some recovery abilities, more from retraining surviving neurons than growing new ones.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >So, if you don't start to treat until there are symptoms, you could kill the fungus and at best, the person would not get worse. Which is not to be dismissed, but.. It's "not to dismissed"? It's the difference between life and death!