5 ms·

Source please? It isn't an ego thing, it is a consistency thing. People go mad about getting higher end grinders, machines, etc... because they are trying to c

Source please? It isn't an ego thing, it is a consistency thing. People go mad about getting higher end grinders, machines, etc... because they are trying to control for all possible variables. Espresso is incredibly finicky about those variables, but you can control for them with the right equipment. It is pretty easy to demonstrate that the higher end burr grinders have greater adjustability and consistency than the lower end ones. It is also totally obvious that they are needed on any higher end machine. I used to think it was all bullshit too, then I got a Silvia, started with a blade grinder, then a low end burr grinder, then a rocky before I could finally get the grind both fine and consistent enough to pull a proper shot. It isn't a subtle difference between a good shot or a bad one, anybody can tell the difference.

Retric 11y ago
EX: http://www.drbunsen.org/coffee-experiments/ http://www.drbunsen.org/coffee-experiments/ Based on this analysis, subjects did not show a statistically significant preference in coffee brewed from a blade grinder or burr grinder. First off only ~1/3 of coffee drinkers take it black which masks a lot of taste variation. Second, taste sensitivity varies widely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster Put together well under half of coffee drinkers notice subtle differences in grinding methods. Assuming the devices are setup to similar grinding levels and use similar source beans. Note: You can find examples on both sides of this issue. But, the blind taste tests that repeat over time fail to provide the expected consistency. PS: There are a few people that both notice and care about these issues, but they really are the minority of coffee drinkers.
- luma 11y ago
  Brewed coffee != espresso. I think that might be the essential piece you are missing. Espresso is brewed at very high pressures and as a result the grind size and consistency has a large impact on the resulting shot. The difference is not at all subtle and is quantified by the extraction time for each shot.
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  I'm kinda with you on the ego thing, but I will claim that there is a noticeable difference (in brewed coffee, I'm not an espresso fan) between beans ground with a good burr grinder vs a blade grinder. I couldn't match the quality of my local Dunn Bros coffeeshop until I started asking them to grind my beans when I bought them. Switching from my cheap blade grinder to their in-shop one made the largest difference in taste.
  - Retric 11y ago
    Your assuming it was using there grinder vs. there grinder settings that was important. In other words proper technique vs. proper device. Also, time sitting around post grinding is a large factor.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
      Well, considering that simply by virtue of being completely different types of device, there's no way I could match their settings with my grinder. Yes, time is a factor, but a week after the beans were ground in store, they still tasted better than mine, so...
- nicpottier 11y ago
  As someone else noted, drip (brewed) coffee is a different beast than espresso. A blade grinder will probably do you just fine for that. Espresso is brewed under pressure, if you don't have a consistently fine grind then the water will pass straight through without extracting any of the flavor. If your grind is too fine, then it will block the machine and you'll get a bitter extraction. Again, this isn't a subtle thing. If you've had a real espresso machine (one that has a pump that applies the proper pressure) then it immediately becomes obvious that you need a consistent grind that you can adjust. The variable you track is generally the length of the extraction, ie, how long it takes to get an ounce or an ounce and a half of espresso for a given amount of time. (aiming for 16-22 seconds or so) Too fine a grind and you'll block it up and you'll never get the oz, too coarse and it will all come out too quickly. You often need to adjust the grind minute amounts every day based on local temperature, humidity and the age of the beans. This isn't audiophile stuff, it is obvious to anybody who makes espresso and actually wants it to taste good. (ie, isn't drowning it in milk, sugar and syrups)

Retric 11y ago

EX: http://www.drbunsen.org/coffee-experiments/ http://www.drbunsen.org/coffee-experiments/ Based on this analysis, subjects did not show a statistically significant preference in coffee brewed from a blade grinder or burr grinder. First off only ~1/3 of coffee drinkers take it black which masks a lot of taste variation. Second, taste sensitivity varies widely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster Put together well under half of coffee drinkers notice subtle differences in grinding methods. Assuming the devices are setup to similar grinding levels and use similar source beans. Note: You can find examples on both sides of this issue. But, the blind taste tests that repeat over time fail to provide the expected consistency. PS: There are a few people that both notice and care about these issues, but they really are the minority of coffee drinkers.

luma 11y ago
Brewed coffee != espresso. I think that might be the essential piece you are missing. Espresso is brewed at very high pressures and as a result the grind size and consistency has a large impact on the resulting shot. The difference is not at all subtle and is quantified by the extraction time for each shot.
HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
I'm kinda with you on the ego thing, but I will claim that there is a noticeable difference (in brewed coffee, I'm not an espresso fan) between beans ground with a good burr grinder vs a blade grinder. I couldn't match the quality of my local Dunn Bros coffeeshop until I started asking them to grind my beans when I bought them. Switching from my cheap blade grinder to their in-shop one made the largest difference in taste.
- Retric 11y ago
  Your assuming it was using there grinder vs. there grinder settings that was important. In other words proper technique vs. proper device. Also, time sitting around post grinding is a large factor.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
    Well, considering that simply by virtue of being completely different types of device, there's no way I could match their settings with my grinder. Yes, time is a factor, but a week after the beans were ground in store, they still tasted better than mine, so...
nicpottier 11y ago
As someone else noted, drip (brewed) coffee is a different beast than espresso. A blade grinder will probably do you just fine for that. Espresso is brewed under pressure, if you don't have a consistently fine grind then the water will pass straight through without extracting any of the flavor. If your grind is too fine, then it will block the machine and you'll get a bitter extraction. Again, this isn't a subtle thing. If you've had a real espresso machine (one that has a pump that applies the proper pressure) then it immediately becomes obvious that you need a consistent grind that you can adjust. The variable you track is generally the length of the extraction, ie, how long it takes to get an ounce or an ounce and a half of espresso for a given amount of time. (aiming for 16-22 seconds or so) Too fine a grind and you'll block it up and you'll never get the oz, too coarse and it will all come out too quickly. You often need to adjust the grind minute amounts every day based on local temperature, humidity and the age of the beans. This isn't audiophile stuff, it is obvious to anybody who makes espresso and actually wants it to taste good. (ie, isn't drowning it in milk, sugar and syrups)