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In other news, the sky is blue. Not to sound to trivial about this, but I think the track record of the CIA and torture is very ... well, established.

jjoonathan 11y ago
It is. But that wasn't their point. > Interrogators used a technique that elicits a drowning sensation and lowers body temperature on many more detainees than the agency admits to waterboarding They're bringing attention to a "definition dodge" play that the CIA is making. It's not a surprising play, especially for people who are aware of the definition dodge regarding drone fatalities, but I bet that it will be highly effective at exploiting many reasonable peoples' desire to "hear both sides" or, more cynically, rationalize away their government's actions. Bringing attention to it is the only defense mechanism I can think of. It won't be very effective, but it's the most anyone knows how to do. If you've got a better suggestion... it is difficult to overstate how fantastically excited I (and many others) would be to hear it.
- cryoshon 11y ago
  Yes, you hit the nail on the head exactly. It's the same kind of intentionally obtuse ultra-narrow definitions that we saw the NSA using when their programs were under pressure. Normal words with colloquial dictionary supported and commonly understood meanings are hijacked and re-defined in secret, such that probes directed at the organization can be defused by confusion over terms or led astray by pursuing the wrong term. This deception also leaves room for clandestine organizations to deceive their own political apparatus if the people above them grow to be too nosy or inconvenient. The best example of this strategem is in Clapper's usage of the word "collected". Complete propaganda, of course. The CIA has been caught redhanded doing the exact same stuff in the past, not to mention the original article's most recent example.
cryoshon 11y ago
No, this isn't a rehash of old information, this is new news: the CIA was just now exposed by the report to have drastically low-balled Congress as well as the public on how frequently they tortured their prisoners. The report isn't even fully out yet, this is just a preview. Just to reiterate, this report is not released yet, so its content is not "old news" or "established", though we can ultra-conservatively estimate that the CIA has been torturing countless people and training torturers to do so in their name over the course of decades. There is no such thing as having too much evidence when it comes to demolishing PR and spin.

jjoonathan 11y ago

It is. But that wasn't their point. > Interrogators used a technique that elicits a drowning sensation and lowers body temperature on many more detainees than the agency admits to waterboarding They're bringing attention to a "definition dodge" play that the CIA is making. It's not a surprising play, especially for people who are aware of the definition dodge regarding drone fatalities, but I bet that it will be highly effective at exploiting many reasonable peoples' desire to "hear both sides" or, more cynically, rationalize away their government's actions. Bringing attention to it is the only defense mechanism I can think of. It won't be very effective, but it's the most anyone knows how to do. If you've got a better suggestion... it is difficult to overstate how fantastically excited I (and many others) would be to hear it.

cryoshon 11y ago
Yes, you hit the nail on the head exactly. It's the same kind of intentionally obtuse ultra-narrow definitions that we saw the NSA using when their programs were under pressure. Normal words with colloquial dictionary supported and commonly understood meanings are hijacked and re-defined in secret, such that probes directed at the organization can be defused by confusion over terms or led astray by pursuing the wrong term. This deception also leaves room for clandestine organizations to deceive their own political apparatus if the people above them grow to be too nosy or inconvenient. The best example of this strategem is in Clapper's usage of the word "collected". Complete propaganda, of course. The CIA has been caught redhanded doing the exact same stuff in the past, not to mention the original article's most recent example.

cryoshon 11y ago

No, this isn't a rehash of old information, this is new news: the CIA was just now exposed by the report to have drastically low-balled Congress as well as the public on how frequently they tortured their prisoners. The report isn't even fully out yet, this is just a preview. Just to reiterate, this report is not released yet, so its content is not "old news" or "established", though we can ultra-conservatively estimate that the CIA has been torturing countless people and training torturers to do so in their name over the course of decades. There is no such thing as having too much evidence when it comes to demolishing PR and spin.