8 ms·

Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windows 7, 8 systems

45 points by v4n4d1s 11y ago

orionblastar 11y ago
Right "Accident". I'm sure the ads on the W10 start menu were an accident as well. http://betanews.com/2015/10/15/microsoft-now-uses-windows-10s-start-menu-to-display-ads/ http://betanews.com/2015/10/15/microsoft-now-uses-windows-10... I think Microsoft is trying to earn more money by forcing upgrades to Windows 10 and then displaying ads on the start menu and other places. It is the pot of frogs in water, they slowly turn up the heat so the frogs won't notice until it is too late.
- WorldMaker 11y ago
  The "ads" are an opt-in recommendation feature of the Store and/or Cortana. They don't directly make money for Microsoft. (Microsoft still gets its Store cut if you actually buy one of the suggested apps, but it wants Suggested Apps to be a useful, personalized recommender, not a paid featured spot...) If the forced Windows 10 upgrades were not an accident, it wasn't to make money. If anything it would be an attempt to save money and have fewer people on older operating systems that they need to support. If there's a "grand conspiracy" afoot, it should be pretty transparent and obvious by now: Microsoft doesn't want people stuck on the same version of Windows for a decade again (XP).
  - sliverstorm 11y ago
    Microsoft doesn't want people stuck on the same version of Windows for a decade again And a more evil conspiracy, I cannot imagine. :)
    - WorldMaker 11y ago
      Debian LTS, as one example, is Five Years. It's hard not to sympathize with Microsoft that historically maybe their support contracts have been too friendly, compared with the competition. :) I think most of us wish we can keep our tech debt/maintenance relationships below a decade. (At least, those of us that are not yet dinosaurs like IBM.)
  - Teckla 11y ago
    The "ads" are an opt-in recommendation feature of the Store and/or Cortana. On my Windows 10 machine, the "recommendations" were enabled by default. And they sure look/behave like advertisements to me.
- hockeybias 11y ago
  Puhleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaase.
dang 11y ago
Url changed from http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/10/16/microsoft-accident-forces-windows-10-onto-windows-7-windows-8/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/10/16/microsoft..., which points to this.
bargl 11y ago
Relevant followup article. http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/15/microsoft-stops-automatic-windows-10-upgrades-says-default-checked-update-was-a-mistake/ http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/15/microsoft-stops-automatic-... TLDR: It was a mistake and Microsoft stopped it.
- Animats 11y ago
  They say it was a mistake. Do you believe them? Was anyone at Microsoft fired? Did Microsoft offer a way to undo an unwanted install of Windows 10?
  - smt88 11y ago
    > Was anyone at Microsoft fired? As a tech worker, I don't want to live in a world where tech workers are fired because they make a small, fixable mistake. > Did Microsoft offer a way to undo an unwanted install of Windows 10? Yes. You can downgrade Windows 10 to whatever you installed it on top of. I think this has been possible since the Vista -> 7 upgrade.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
      > Yes. You can downgrade Windows 10 to whatever you installed it on top of. I think this has been possible since the Vista -> 7 upgrade. It's been possible with every version of Windows, I believe. Windows 95 would rename your old Windows directory. And earlier versions didn't try to control the hard drive, as they weren't your OS - though 95 didn't try to own it fully, it lacked a My Documents directory and expected you to make your own root directory folders to store file!
      - mappu 11y ago
        The SR2 update for Windows 95 introduced a My Documents folder (along with FAT32 support). Wasn't it possible to store user files in C:/Windows/Profiles/{username}/ , too ?
appleflaxen 11y ago
I'm glad they rolled it back, but getting an unintended system upgrade is such a big deal that I find myself wanting a bigger act of contrition. This is a really big mistake to make with your flagship product.
- Silhouette 11y ago
  This is a really big mistake to make with your flagship product. True enough. In this case, it looks like it might be particularly bad if it affects systems where someone has actively chosen not to move to Windows 10 for their own reasons. That seems to be the case for a lot of "power users". Also, while enterprise-scale businesses with full-time professional admins may well be using WSUS and Enterprise versions of Windows, smaller businesses will often be running Pro versions and handling upgrades in other ways, and could be affected too. Even if the arguments about forced updates and privacy don't seem to concern a lot of typical home users, whether through apathy or ignorance, Windows seems to be losing the trust of the tech community who often do care about such things. That tech community both runs business IT and advises non-technical friends and family, and as a rule it does not take kindly to being bullied. Microsoft have now screwed this same issue up several times over within just a few weeks, and it's starting to look like they've lost control of both their product and their PR.
ausjke 11y ago
I had not switched to win10, but was told by others who did saying that win7 > win10 > win8, i.e. win7 is the best, is it true? I have a dual-boot win7 for tax-filing that I had not booted into since April, using linux daily. This news made me feel relieved a bit that it's good I did not have win7 running and got automatically "upgraded".
- smt88 11y ago
  8 was really, really similar to 7, except for the start menu. The start menu made little difference to me because I just create taskbar/desktop shortcuts or press the Windows key and type what I want. People bitched about the new start menu because they weren't willing to see that there were better ways to find their programs. 10 is really, really similar to 8 as well. The only noticeable difference is, again, the start menu. There are small things here and there (and a much nicer graphical design), but otherwise it's pretty much the same. If you have enough storage, I'd suggest just trying Windows out as a dual-boot option. If you don't like it, you can always remove the Windows partition, no harm done.
  - mintplant 11y ago
    YMMV if you're on a laptop, though. Some models lose control over screen brightness with the 7 -> 10 upgrade, locking it to 100% all the time. Microsoft doesn't have an explanation or fix.
  - grimman 11y ago
    > People bitched about the new start menu because they weren't willing to see that there were better ways to find their programs. What exactly was the better way though? I'm still on Win7 in my primary computer, having Win10 (and previously Win8) installed on my secondary. On Win7 I press the start button and type the name of what I want to run (or find) - this lets me do what I want very quickly with a minimum of interruption. Win8 was similar, but it threw a jarring fullscreen slab of apps in my face. I say it was similar because it still let me start typing right away and get to the stuff I wanted with minimal hassle. Win10 is a whole different beast, I feel. The search was decoupled from the start menu; but the start menu itself returned to most of its former glory (unintrusive, no jarring screen transition). The key factor here is that I can no longer just start typing to get to an app, and I have yet to invest the necessary time into seeing if it is at all possible since it's still my secondary machine. Right now, amidst all of the anti-Microsoft scaremongering, I'm also finding it less likely that I'll keep going down the Microsoft path. Linux is starting to look more and more attractive, with OS X a strong second place contender. And not just for the start menu.
newman314 11y ago
PSA: For people with Windows 10 installed, I've found the following tool quite useful in shutting down the large amount of information collected. http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
- shostack 11y ago
  Any idea how secure and effective it is? Got to be honest, I'm pretty terrified at what Win10 lets them collect. They are pushing really hard to get people to install Win10 and the fact that they backported all the data collection stuff and crammed it into updates all the way back to Win7 is very telling.
  - newman314 11y ago
    You should be able to verify with wireshark. I thought I had followed most of the best practices soon after release but this tool identified a whole bunch more.
- AdmiralAsshat 11y ago
  How much does it actually shut down? It seems like every time we look we're seeing more stuff that MS is collecting.
  - newman314 11y ago
    Seems to shut down quite a bit. Plus, they seem to update the app pretty frequently. I would still recommend usage of a multi-prong approach: firewall rules, hosts file, registry fix.
frio 11y ago
The Windows 10 upgrade process is what finally pushed me to Linux on the desktop. As with any upgrade, I figured I'd wait a while for the dust to settle (Ars' articles on the privacy-invasive nature of Windows 10 made me a little nervous, but I figured that'd get fixed with time). Unfortunately, Microsoft have been extremely aggressive about getting users to move. The 8.1 update that encourages you to upgrade also downloads a copy of Windows 10 -- which, on a small SSD, was frustrating. So, I removed and blocked the KB-x update that added the upgrader. Microsoft then added another, differently named KB-x update which preloaded Windows 10 -- even if you'd blocked the other one (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/microsoft-is-downloading-windows-10-to-pcs-even-if-you-dont-reserve-a-copy/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/micros...). Which, for me, was all a bit too much. Originally I figured I'd come back after some time, but the massively expanded Steam catalogue on Linux is making me question that too.
- x5n1 11y ago
  Well you want all that user data so you can mine if for advertisers don't you? How do you do that? Push people to Windows 10.
  - anon1mous 11y ago
    Right, especially for "advertisers" with three letter acronyms.
  - frio 11y ago
    I'm not really willing to ascribe motive; I'm sure there are plenty of technical reasons to push people to an upgrade too (like reducing support burden). But -- there's nothing like an unwanted OS upgrade (repeatedly) burning through your data cap and spare disk space to suggest that maybe you're not in control of your computer anymore.
macns 11y ago
On a side note the 'get windows 10' update even if hid from the available 'important' updates will come back again to install. Disabled updates altogether, still not sure if that does the job!
autobahn 11y ago
Inaccurate headline.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
atriix 11y ago
The fact that the possibility to make that "mistake" exists makes it a non-mistake. And rather something that was due to happen but maybe someone pressed the button too early.

45 points by v4n4d1s 11y ago

Right "Accident". I'm sure the ads on the W10 start menu were an accident as well. http://betanews.com/2015/10/15/microsoft-now-uses-windows-10s-start-menu-to-display-ads/ http://betanews.com/2015/10/15/microsoft-now-uses-windows-10... I think Microsoft is trying to earn more money by forcing upgrades to Windows 10 and then displaying ads on the start menu and other places. It is the pot of frogs in water, they slowly turn up the heat so the frogs won't notice until it is too late.

WorldMaker 11y ago
The "ads" are an opt-in recommendation feature of the Store and/or Cortana. They don't directly make money for Microsoft. (Microsoft still gets its Store cut if you actually buy one of the suggested apps, but it wants Suggested Apps to be a useful, personalized recommender, not a paid featured spot...) If the forced Windows 10 upgrades were not an accident, it wasn't to make money. If anything it would be an attempt to save money and have fewer people on older operating systems that they need to support. If there's a "grand conspiracy" afoot, it should be pretty transparent and obvious by now: Microsoft doesn't want people stuck on the same version of Windows for a decade again (XP).
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  Microsoft doesn't want people stuck on the same version of Windows for a decade again And a more evil conspiracy, I cannot imagine. :)
  - WorldMaker 11y ago
    Debian LTS, as one example, is Five Years. It's hard not to sympathize with Microsoft that historically maybe their support contracts have been too friendly, compared with the competition. :) I think most of us wish we can keep our tech debt/maintenance relationships below a decade. (At least, those of us that are not yet dinosaurs like IBM.)
- Teckla 11y ago
  The "ads" are an opt-in recommendation feature of the Store and/or Cortana. On my Windows 10 machine, the "recommendations" were enabled by default. And they sure look/behave like advertisements to me.
hockeybias 11y ago
Puhleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaase.

dang 11y ago

Url changed from http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/10/16/microsoft-accident-forces-windows-10-onto-windows-7-windows-8/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/10/16/microsoft..., which points to this.

bargl 11y ago

Relevant followup article. http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/15/microsoft-stops-automatic-windows-10-upgrades-says-default-checked-update-was-a-mistake/ http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/15/microsoft-stops-automatic-... TLDR: It was a mistake and Microsoft stopped it.

Animats 11y ago
They say it was a mistake. Do you believe them? Was anyone at Microsoft fired? Did Microsoft offer a way to undo an unwanted install of Windows 10?
- smt88 11y ago
  > Was anyone at Microsoft fired? As a tech worker, I don't want to live in a world where tech workers are fired because they make a small, fixable mistake. > Did Microsoft offer a way to undo an unwanted install of Windows 10? Yes. You can downgrade Windows 10 to whatever you installed it on top of. I think this has been possible since the Vista -> 7 upgrade.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    > Yes. You can downgrade Windows 10 to whatever you installed it on top of. I think this has been possible since the Vista -> 7 upgrade. It's been possible with every version of Windows, I believe. Windows 95 would rename your old Windows directory. And earlier versions didn't try to control the hard drive, as they weren't your OS - though 95 didn't try to own it fully, it lacked a My Documents directory and expected you to make your own root directory folders to store file!
    - mappu 11y ago
      The SR2 update for Windows 95 introduced a My Documents folder (along with FAT32 support). Wasn't it possible to store user files in C:/Windows/Profiles/{username}/ , too ?

appleflaxen 11y ago

I'm glad they rolled it back, but getting an unintended system upgrade is such a big deal that I find myself wanting a bigger act of contrition. This is a really big mistake to make with your flagship product.

Silhouette 11y ago
This is a really big mistake to make with your flagship product. True enough. In this case, it looks like it might be particularly bad if it affects systems where someone has actively chosen not to move to Windows 10 for their own reasons. That seems to be the case for a lot of "power users". Also, while enterprise-scale businesses with full-time professional admins may well be using WSUS and Enterprise versions of Windows, smaller businesses will often be running Pro versions and handling upgrades in other ways, and could be affected too. Even if the arguments about forced updates and privacy don't seem to concern a lot of typical home users, whether through apathy or ignorance, Windows seems to be losing the trust of the tech community who often do care about such things. That tech community both runs business IT and advises non-technical friends and family, and as a rule it does not take kindly to being bullied. Microsoft have now screwed this same issue up several times over within just a few weeks, and it's starting to look like they've lost control of both their product and their PR.

ausjke 11y ago

I had not switched to win10, but was told by others who did saying that win7 > win10 > win8, i.e. win7 is the best, is it true? I have a dual-boot win7 for tax-filing that I had not booted into since April, using linux daily. This news made me feel relieved a bit that it's good I did not have win7 running and got automatically "upgraded".

smt88 11y ago
8 was really, really similar to 7, except for the start menu. The start menu made little difference to me because I just create taskbar/desktop shortcuts or press the Windows key and type what I want. People bitched about the new start menu because they weren't willing to see that there were better ways to find their programs. 10 is really, really similar to 8 as well. The only noticeable difference is, again, the start menu. There are small things here and there (and a much nicer graphical design), but otherwise it's pretty much the same. If you have enough storage, I'd suggest just trying Windows out as a dual-boot option. If you don't like it, you can always remove the Windows partition, no harm done.
- mintplant 11y ago
  YMMV if you're on a laptop, though. Some models lose control over screen brightness with the 7 -> 10 upgrade, locking it to 100% all the time. Microsoft doesn't have an explanation or fix.
- grimman 11y ago
  > People bitched about the new start menu because they weren't willing to see that there were better ways to find their programs. What exactly was the better way though? I'm still on Win7 in my primary computer, having Win10 (and previously Win8) installed on my secondary. On Win7 I press the start button and type the name of what I want to run (or find) - this lets me do what I want very quickly with a minimum of interruption. Win8 was similar, but it threw a jarring fullscreen slab of apps in my face. I say it was similar because it still let me start typing right away and get to the stuff I wanted with minimal hassle. Win10 is a whole different beast, I feel. The search was decoupled from the start menu; but the start menu itself returned to most of its former glory (unintrusive, no jarring screen transition). The key factor here is that I can no longer just start typing to get to an app, and I have yet to invest the necessary time into seeing if it is at all possible since it's still my secondary machine. Right now, amidst all of the anti-Microsoft scaremongering, I'm also finding it less likely that I'll keep going down the Microsoft path. Linux is starting to look more and more attractive, with OS X a strong second place contender. And not just for the start menu.

newman314 11y ago

PSA: For people with Windows 10 installed, I've found the following tool quite useful in shutting down the large amount of information collected. http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

shostack 11y ago
Any idea how secure and effective it is? Got to be honest, I'm pretty terrified at what Win10 lets them collect. They are pushing really hard to get people to install Win10 and the fact that they backported all the data collection stuff and crammed it into updates all the way back to Win7 is very telling.
- newman314 11y ago
  You should be able to verify with wireshark. I thought I had followed most of the best practices soon after release but this tool identified a whole bunch more.
AdmiralAsshat 11y ago
How much does it actually shut down? It seems like every time we look we're seeing more stuff that MS is collecting.
- newman314 11y ago
  Seems to shut down quite a bit. Plus, they seem to update the app pretty frequently. I would still recommend usage of a multi-prong approach: firewall rules, hosts file, registry fix.

frio 11y ago

The Windows 10 upgrade process is what finally pushed me to Linux on the desktop. As with any upgrade, I figured I'd wait a while for the dust to settle (Ars' articles on the privacy-invasive nature of Windows 10 made me a little nervous, but I figured that'd get fixed with time). Unfortunately, Microsoft have been extremely aggressive about getting users to move. The 8.1 update that encourages you to upgrade also downloads a copy of Windows 10 -- which, on a small SSD, was frustrating. So, I removed and blocked the KB-x update that added the upgrader. Microsoft then added another, differently named KB-x update which preloaded Windows 10 -- even if you'd blocked the other one (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/microsoft-is-downloading-windows-10-to-pcs-even-if-you-dont-reserve-a-copy/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/micros...). Which, for me, was all a bit too much. Originally I figured I'd come back after some time, but the massively expanded Steam catalogue on Linux is making me question that too.

x5n1 11y ago
Well you want all that user data so you can mine if for advertisers don't you? How do you do that? Push people to Windows 10.
- anon1mous 11y ago
  Right, especially for "advertisers" with three letter acronyms.
- frio 11y ago
  I'm not really willing to ascribe motive; I'm sure there are plenty of technical reasons to push people to an upgrade too (like reducing support burden). But -- there's nothing like an unwanted OS upgrade (repeatedly) burning through your data cap and spare disk space to suggest that maybe you're not in control of your computer anymore.

macns 11y ago

On a side note the 'get windows 10' update even if hid from the available 'important' updates will come back again to install. Disabled updates altogether, still not sure if that does the job!

autobahn 11y ago

Inaccurate headline.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

atriix 11y ago

The fact that the possibility to make that "mistake" exists makes it a non-mistake. And rather something that was due to happen but maybe someone pressed the button too early.