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"Drivers still like VW" at the moment, before any fixes have been applied. It's a bit abstract right now. Let's see what happens after the fix is rolled out,

"Drivers still like VW" at the moment, before any fixes have been applied. It's a bit abstract right now. Let's see what happens after the fix is rolled out, the owners need to schedule their appointments for the recalls, deal with (possible) lower fuel economy and performance, and (possible) lower resale values.

PantaloonFlames 11y ago
lower economy, lower performance, and possible higher maintenance costs too. Some of the proposed fixes involve retro-fitting Urea-based SCR systems, which need to be maintained more than "no filter at all". But those effects are long-term and therefore less quantified and immediately apparent. Seems to me, the major influencer on how drivers feel about VW is the news items about how bad VW is.
- CodeWriter23 11y ago
  They're not going to retrofit an SCR system on to cars proven to meet emissions standards when the software is running in compliance mode. They're going to reflash the ECU with software that doesn't cheat. The result for the consumer: a minor drop in fuel economy and more frequent cycling of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) will have a little more noticeable impact on performance than when in cheat mode. The DPF is like a muffler with a trap to catch the soot and ash from the exhaust. That black stuff you see coming out of a truck but never from a TDI even when in cheat mode. When the DPF is cycling, the engine passes unburned fuel from intake to exhaust on every fourth stroke. The unspent fuel lands on the trap, and when the hot exhaust from the next stroke ignites that fuel, the soot and ash are reduced, which in turn reduces NOx emissions. If they are smart with the software, they'll try to run the DPF when the car is cruising not accelerating, and the impact on performance will be hardly noticeable at all. Cycling the DPF more often will likely result in a longer lifespan for that unit. Currently they need to be cleaned when they become fouled. Cycling the DPF more frequently, thus burning the soot out of the trap more regularly will likely reduce fouling.
exw 11y ago
> deal with (possible) lower fuel economy and performance, Not clear if these results will hold up, but CR ran some tests that seemed to indicate that running the car in "cheat mode" had a relatively small impact on performance - "both cars added less than a second in the 0 to 60 mph time. The Jetta saw fuel economy drop from 53 to 50 mpg, and the Sportwagen went from 50 to 46 mpg." http://www.wired.com/2015/10/vw-diesel-cheat-mode-mpg-performance/ http://www.wired.com/2015/10/vw-diesel-cheat-mode-mpg-perfor...
brazzledazzle 11y ago
On the other hand, most drivers who like VW don't drive a diesel-fueled vehicle produced by them.
TeMPOraL 11y ago
They will be pissed off. Not at VW, but at "stupid government" that piles "unnecessary" regulations that make them part with more and more of their hard-earned money. I'm pretty sure VW won't get hurt even a little by all of this. "Voting with wallet" doesn't work. If you don't make a corporation pay up front to the public (i.e. to the government), nothing will change.

PantaloonFlames 11y ago

lower economy, lower performance, and possible higher maintenance costs too. Some of the proposed fixes involve retro-fitting Urea-based SCR systems, which need to be maintained more than "no filter at all". But those effects are long-term and therefore less quantified and immediately apparent. Seems to me, the major influencer on how drivers feel about VW is the news items about how bad VW is.

CodeWriter23 11y ago
They're not going to retrofit an SCR system on to cars proven to meet emissions standards when the software is running in compliance mode. They're going to reflash the ECU with software that doesn't cheat. The result for the consumer: a minor drop in fuel economy and more frequent cycling of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) will have a little more noticeable impact on performance than when in cheat mode. The DPF is like a muffler with a trap to catch the soot and ash from the exhaust. That black stuff you see coming out of a truck but never from a TDI even when in cheat mode. When the DPF is cycling, the engine passes unburned fuel from intake to exhaust on every fourth stroke. The unspent fuel lands on the trap, and when the hot exhaust from the next stroke ignites that fuel, the soot and ash are reduced, which in turn reduces NOx emissions. If they are smart with the software, they'll try to run the DPF when the car is cruising not accelerating, and the impact on performance will be hardly noticeable at all. Cycling the DPF more often will likely result in a longer lifespan for that unit. Currently they need to be cleaned when they become fouled. Cycling the DPF more frequently, thus burning the soot out of the trap more regularly will likely reduce fouling.

exw 11y ago

> deal with (possible) lower fuel economy and performance, Not clear if these results will hold up, but CR ran some tests that seemed to indicate that running the car in "cheat mode" had a relatively small impact on performance - "both cars added less than a second in the 0 to 60 mph time. The Jetta saw fuel economy drop from 53 to 50 mpg, and the Sportwagen went from 50 to 46 mpg." http://www.wired.com/2015/10/vw-diesel-cheat-mode-mpg-performance/ http://www.wired.com/2015/10/vw-diesel-cheat-mode-mpg-perfor...

brazzledazzle 11y ago

On the other hand, most drivers who like VW don't drive a diesel-fueled vehicle produced by them.

TeMPOraL 11y ago

They will be pissed off. Not at VW, but at "stupid government" that piles "unnecessary" regulations that make them part with more and more of their hard-earned money. I'm pretty sure VW won't get hurt even a little by all of this. "Voting with wallet" doesn't work. If you don't make a corporation pay up front to the public (i.e. to the government), nothing will change.