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A grapevine starts with one. Recommendation systems, as well as the plain old web, are just scalable grapevines. If a new product is good, people will quickly h

A grapevine starts with one. Recommendation systems, as well as the plain old web, are just scalable grapevines. If a new product is good, people will quickly hear about how good it is from actual users. As opposed to from you the biased (and often motivated to mislead) seller. So how do you bootstrap your good product into the grapevine? A variety of ways, depending on what it is. Sending samples to reviewers. Announcements on relevant websites (such as HN). Making it available in catalogs and product search engines (Amazon, an app store, Etsy, Orbitz, etc) where people will encounter it in search results.

dec0dedab0de 11y ago
Sending samples to reviewers. Announcements on relevant websites (such as HN). Making it available in catalogs and product search engines (Amazon, an app store, Etsy, Orbitz, etc) where people will encounter it in search results. Aren't those all forms of advertising?
- saint_fiasco 11y ago
  People read reviewers and get catalogues and search for things on purpose. I don't think people have a problem with getting information about products when they deliberately look for that.
- eevilspock 11y ago
  Only in the barest and most technical of senses. They are not being shoved in anyone's face; They are being placed where people want to find them. They are not subsidizing anything, and thereby mucking with normal healthy free-market dynamics (where the customer is the customer, not the product). It's one thing to put a sign outside your new bakery, or to request the newspaper's food critic to review your product, and its another thing entirely to "donate" your cupcakes to a charity bake sale on condition that there be a sign about your shop or flyers handed out with the cupcakes.
  - dec0dedab0de 11y ago
    I agree with your point about ad's being "shoved in someone's face" and that it is a problem when services are beholden to specific advertisers. But I do think ad's can be done tastefully and in a way that benefits all involved. Imagine if HN had a link at the top for advertisements, and they had a policy that anyone with > x amount of karma could pay $y to have a listing for z days. It would be reminiscent of the ad's in the back of old computer magazines, with people selling home made software, tools, and services. Another example, would be if a music venue paid local record shops to have a prominent display of upcoming shows in their store, and on their website. How could that be anything but useful? Honestly, I'm not selling anything, and I avoid ad's as much as possible. I even signed up for the ad free Hulu just to put my money where my mouth was, after ranting to friends about how I would never pay for something that came with commercials. I just think that a wholesale attack against the idea of advertising is shortsighted.

dec0dedab0de 11y ago

Sending samples to reviewers. Announcements on relevant websites (such as HN). Making it available in catalogs and product search engines (Amazon, an app store, Etsy, Orbitz, etc) where people will encounter it in search results. Aren't those all forms of advertising?

saint_fiasco 11y ago
People read reviewers and get catalogues and search for things on purpose. I don't think people have a problem with getting information about products when they deliberately look for that.
eevilspock 11y ago
Only in the barest and most technical of senses. They are not being shoved in anyone's face; They are being placed where people want to find them. They are not subsidizing anything, and thereby mucking with normal healthy free-market dynamics (where the customer is the customer, not the product). It's one thing to put a sign outside your new bakery, or to request the newspaper's food critic to review your product, and its another thing entirely to "donate" your cupcakes to a charity bake sale on condition that there be a sign about your shop or flyers handed out with the cupcakes.
- dec0dedab0de 11y ago
  I agree with your point about ad's being "shoved in someone's face" and that it is a problem when services are beholden to specific advertisers. But I do think ad's can be done tastefully and in a way that benefits all involved. Imagine if HN had a link at the top for advertisements, and they had a policy that anyone with > x amount of karma could pay $y to have a listing for z days. It would be reminiscent of the ad's in the back of old computer magazines, with people selling home made software, tools, and services. Another example, would be if a music venue paid local record shops to have a prominent display of upcoming shows in their store, and on their website. How could that be anything but useful? Honestly, I'm not selling anything, and I avoid ad's as much as possible. I even signed up for the ad free Hulu just to put my money where my mouth was, after ranting to friends about how I would never pay for something that came with commercials. I just think that a wholesale attack against the idea of advertising is shortsighted.