4 ms·

To put the two in the same category is a bit much: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/russia-s-propaganda-blitzkrieg.html http://www.thedailybeas

To put the two in the same category is a bit much: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/russia-s-propaganda-blitzkrieg.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/russia-s-pr...

dmichulke 11y ago
Well, one killed intentionally from 150k up to 600k people [0], the other one (if it was "him" and if it was intentionally) some 300. So not really the same category... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War To be more specific: I don't see any of the features prcolaimed by the West (honest government, no interference in other country's business, avoid civilian kills) upheld by themselves. Also to note, I don't think Putin does it either.
- knowaveragejoe 11y ago
  I fail to see how we went from comparing media in the two spheres of influence and whether it's propaganda to this comparison of specific actions cherry-picked from history.
- dave_sullivan 11y ago
  I do pay attention to the way Russia does propaganda and I've noticed one common tactic is to call out some hypocrisy of the US, then use that to completely skirt the first issue. For instance "Why does Russia torture dissidents?" "Ah, sure, like the US doesn't torture people that disagree with them..." So move along because Russia doesn't torture people? Or it's OK because America does too? Or many Americans don't believe America really tortures, so Russia must not really torture either? Or, specific to this discussion: "Why do people believe the Russian propaganda machine?" "Oh, sure, like Americans don't believe their own propaganda cough Iraq war cough." So move along because Russian and American propaganda are similar? Both of those (US tortures people and Iraq war was sold with a lie) are true. The weird trick is that getting someone to admit that two parties are remotely similar makes them much more similar in our minds than we intended (our minds think in black and white, villains and heroes, "somewhere in between" is a strange and modern concept). Suddenly, you are much less worried about Russia because the US is doing it too. Or rather, you're not worried about the US, so why worry about Russia? The other favorite is appeals to nationalism: "How do you respond to protesters in the capital?" "They are not real Russians, just look, some of their signs are in English, they are meant as propaganda for the Western media. All the real Russians understand what we are doing, despite the best efforts of the West." But while we're at it, I'll raise your 600k people to the tens of millions that died during the reign of the USSR.
- AlexandrB 11y ago
  > Well, one killed intentionally from 150k up to 600k people [0], the other one (if it was "him" and if it was intentionally) some 300. Can't tell if you're joking or just don't know anything about the region. The Second Chechen War under Putin claimed some 25,0000 civilian lives [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

To put the two in the same category is a bit much: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/russia-s-propaganda-blitzkrieg.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/russia-s-pr...

dmichulke 11y ago

Well, one killed intentionally from 150k up to 600k people [0], the other one (if it was "him" and if it was intentionally) some 300. So not really the same category... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War To be more specific: I don't see any of the features prcolaimed by the West (honest government, no interference in other country's business, avoid civilian kills) upheld by themselves. Also to note, I don't think Putin does it either.

knowaveragejoe 11y ago
I fail to see how we went from comparing media in the two spheres of influence and whether it's propaganda to this comparison of specific actions cherry-picked from history.
dave_sullivan 11y ago
I do pay attention to the way Russia does propaganda and I've noticed one common tactic is to call out some hypocrisy of the US, then use that to completely skirt the first issue. For instance "Why does Russia torture dissidents?" "Ah, sure, like the US doesn't torture people that disagree with them..." So move along because Russia doesn't torture people? Or it's OK because America does too? Or many Americans don't believe America really tortures, so Russia must not really torture either? Or, specific to this discussion: "Why do people believe the Russian propaganda machine?" "Oh, sure, like Americans don't believe their own propaganda cough Iraq war cough." So move along because Russian and American propaganda are similar? Both of those (US tortures people and Iraq war was sold with a lie) are true. The weird trick is that getting someone to admit that two parties are remotely similar makes them much more similar in our minds than we intended (our minds think in black and white, villains and heroes, "somewhere in between" is a strange and modern concept). Suddenly, you are much less worried about Russia because the US is doing it too. Or rather, you're not worried about the US, so why worry about Russia? The other favorite is appeals to nationalism: "How do you respond to protesters in the capital?" "They are not real Russians, just look, some of their signs are in English, they are meant as propaganda for the Western media. All the real Russians understand what we are doing, despite the best efforts of the West." But while we're at it, I'll raise your 600k people to the tens of millions that died during the reign of the USSR.
AlexandrB 11y ago
> Well, one killed intentionally from 150k up to 600k people [0], the other one (if it was "him" and if it was intentionally) some 300. Can't tell if you're joking or just don't know anything about the region. The Second Chechen War under Putin claimed some 25,0000 civilian lives [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War