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Re: electric vehicles drawing power from a dirty grid The dirtiness of the US power grid varies quite a bit depending on where you live. For example, Tesla own

Re: electric vehicles drawing power from a dirty grid The dirtiness of the US power grid varies quite a bit depending on where you live. For example, Tesla owners in New York have emissions equivalent to a 112 MPG gasoline vehicle [0]. The dirtiest portion of the grid is Colorado, where you would only get 34 MPG equivalent. While not as good, this is still above average. http://i.imgur.com/nTBCJ8w.jpg http://i.imgur.com/nTBCJ8w.jpg (via Wait But Why)

sliverstorm 11y ago
Why is Colorado so bad? A lossy electrical grid? Less solar/nuclear/wind/hydro? What metric is that really showing? Here[0] Colorado doesn't top any of the charts. [0]: http://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/state/analysis/ http://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/state/analysis/
- chadzawistowski 11y ago
  Colorado is part of the RMPA (Rocky Mountain Power Area). It might not top the charts for absolute emissions. A better metric to search for would be emissions per megawatt hour (lb/MWh). In 2009, RMPA had the highest carbon emissions per megawatt hour out of the entire US, at 1,824.51 lb/MWh [0]. It also emits nitrous oxide at a high rate, though not the highest in the country. [0] http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-02/documents/egrid2012v1_0_year09_summarytables.pdf http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-02/documents...
ZeroGravitas 11y ago
One interesting angle on this is that the grid is decarbonizing (e.g. just a switch from coal to gas can have a big impact). It seems that currently the two things (modern efficient ICE versus EV) are roughly comparable, but which is improving faster and predicted to continue improving in the future? Many of the proper scientific studies on this use years old grid data since newer info takes a while to collate and get published, so possibly EVs have already pulled ahead.
- chadzawistowski 11y ago
  Tim Urban (author of Wait But Why) scrounged for data and made some excellent graphs about this. I recommend checking out his excellent but long post on Tesla: http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-lif... In general, electric vehicles are better than gas vehicles. However, hybrids may be the most efficient in a region with a relatively dirty electric grid: http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Screen-Shot-2015-05-28-at-4.52.33-PM.png http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-c...
  - greglindahl 11y ago
    Electric vehicles live for 10+ years. That makes a big difference when you are thinking about whether or not hybrids are more efficient in your locality.

sliverstorm 11y ago

Why is Colorado so bad? A lossy electrical grid? Less solar/nuclear/wind/hydro? What metric is that really showing? Here[0] Colorado doesn't top any of the charts. [0]: http://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/state/analysis/ http://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/state/analysis/

chadzawistowski 11y ago
Colorado is part of the RMPA (Rocky Mountain Power Area). It might not top the charts for absolute emissions. A better metric to search for would be emissions per megawatt hour (lb/MWh). In 2009, RMPA had the highest carbon emissions per megawatt hour out of the entire US, at 1,824.51 lb/MWh [0]. It also emits nitrous oxide at a high rate, though not the highest in the country. [0] http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-02/documents/egrid2012v1_0_year09_summarytables.pdf http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-02/documents...

ZeroGravitas 11y ago

One interesting angle on this is that the grid is decarbonizing (e.g. just a switch from coal to gas can have a big impact). It seems that currently the two things (modern efficient ICE versus EV) are roughly comparable, but which is improving faster and predicted to continue improving in the future? Many of the proper scientific studies on this use years old grid data since newer info takes a while to collate and get published, so possibly EVs have already pulled ahead.

chadzawistowski 11y ago
Tim Urban (author of Wait But Why) scrounged for data and made some excellent graphs about this. I recommend checking out his excellent but long post on Tesla: http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-lif... In general, electric vehicles are better than gas vehicles. However, hybrids may be the most efficient in a region with a relatively dirty electric grid: http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Screen-Shot-2015-05-28-at-4.52.33-PM.png http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-c...
- greglindahl 11y ago
  Electric vehicles live for 10+ years. That makes a big difference when you are thinking about whether or not hybrids are more efficient in your locality.