3 ms·

I wonder if there's a study into how successful internet child porn laws are at actually preventing crime. I'd guess they are absolutely not effective at all.

by axod 17y ago

I wonder if there's a study into how successful internet child porn laws are at actually preventing crime. I'd guess they are absolutely not effective at all. I don't understand the rationale behind making viewing certain images illegal :/ Obviously I'm not someone who wants to view such images, but I can't see why doing so should be a crime. It's verging on 'thought police'. We're living in an age where you can view videos of beheadings, people send around youtubes of some guy being electricuted on top of a train. Death? Hey sure that's fine, but post a pic of your baby enjoying bathtime and you'll be hunted down and burned as a witch. It's perverse.

sailormoon 17y ago
I think that's the first time I ever voted you up axod :D I agree. The idea of making certain strings of bits illegal is perverse and, long term, utterly unenforceable, and will only promote contempt for the law - well deserved contempt.
- axod 17y ago
  law of averages means I have to be 'right' at some point in the history of HN ;) The other culprit here of course is the media who whip up hate campaigns, scare parents and generally enforce the idea that pedophiles are worse than serial killers, and that there a thousands of them ready to strike on YOUR kids when you least expect it.
  - sailormoon 17y ago
    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day .. ; ) I believe it is a systemic problem. Yes, the media is involved, but they're just giving the public what they want. The institutions we have were formed in the mid-20th century to stop what was then legitimate child neglect/abuse. They succeeded in the 70s, but they didn't disband. They merely redefined abuse, and continue to do so, and today they are part of the government itself. They are the ones who feed the media, and with the credibility of government encourage the fear epidemic, as it's in line with their interests. The institutions in our government are out of control and this is happening everywhere. It's not a USA or UK or AU problem; we all have the same cancer.
ErrantX 17y ago
we've had this argument before I recall ;) > I wonder if there's a study into how successful internet child porn laws are at actually preventing crime. I dont know of one. The trouble is work in that area is actually classified (I cant remember to what level). So we can only work with the data we know of (i.e. ours) - same for every company/force working on such cases. Second problem is that it is usually quite a fragmented field from detection through investigation and to trial that collating accurate stats is even harder. I might try to put something together though. In terms of: > We're living in an age where you can view videos of beheadings, people send around youtubes of some guy being electricuted on top of a train. I actually agree the law is a bit wierd here. For example if those images or video's also included something class able as pornography it become extreme porn and hence illegal (at least here in the UK). Im not really sure where I stand on that (apart from the fact that the point is the viewer is more likely "getting off" on the porn or something) > but post a pic of your baby enjoying bathtime and you'll be hunted down and burned as a witch If you post it on a pedophile network well, then, probably you will be :) On other sites? Highly unlikely. And if you are investigated someone like me will prove the negative. Please dont forget; the VAST majority of people are caught in 3 ways: - by actively downloading from known and watched pedophile networks - by being caught IRL by someone and reported to the police - by grooming youngsters on the web and the victim / victims parents reporting it (sort of like #2 but more pro-active) As to the legality or morality of viewing these images; I choose not to comment. Because I suspect we differ entirely there. With all of that said: > and that there a thousands of them ready to strike on YOUR kids when you least expect it. I could not agree more with such a sentiment. It really annoys me (along with my colleagues) that the media/govt. persist these attitudes. It actually damages our efforts too.
- axod 17y ago
  >> "As to the legality or morality of viewing these images; I choose not to comment. Because I suspect we differ entirely there." Are you saying you believe simply viewing particular light patterns should be a crime? It's just bizarre. But as you say, I guess we disagree on that point. Should "thinking inappropriate thoughts about minors" be a crime also? Should we develop brain monitors and all wear funny hats? If you believe viewing such images should be illegal, then even law enforcement officers should not be able to view them - otherwise how do we know if they secretly 'enjoy' looking at them. The whole sorry exercise is one of thought policing.

by axod 17y ago

sailormoon 17y ago

I think that's the first time I ever voted you up axod :D I agree. The idea of making certain strings of bits illegal is perverse and, long term, utterly unenforceable, and will only promote contempt for the law - well deserved contempt.

axod 17y ago
law of averages means I have to be 'right' at some point in the history of HN ;) The other culprit here of course is the media who whip up hate campaigns, scare parents and generally enforce the idea that pedophiles are worse than serial killers, and that there a thousands of them ready to strike on YOUR kids when you least expect it.
- sailormoon 17y ago
  Even a stopped clock is right twice a day .. ; ) I believe it is a systemic problem. Yes, the media is involved, but they're just giving the public what they want. The institutions we have were formed in the mid-20th century to stop what was then legitimate child neglect/abuse. They succeeded in the 70s, but they didn't disband. They merely redefined abuse, and continue to do so, and today they are part of the government itself. They are the ones who feed the media, and with the credibility of government encourage the fear epidemic, as it's in line with their interests. The institutions in our government are out of control and this is happening everywhere. It's not a USA or UK or AU problem; we all have the same cancer.

ErrantX 17y ago

we've had this argument before I recall ;) > I wonder if there's a study into how successful internet child porn laws are at actually preventing crime. I dont know of one. The trouble is work in that area is actually classified (I cant remember to what level). So we can only work with the data we know of (i.e. ours) - same for every company/force working on such cases. Second problem is that it is usually quite a fragmented field from detection through investigation and to trial that collating accurate stats is even harder. I might try to put something together though. In terms of: > We're living in an age where you can view videos of beheadings, people send around youtubes of some guy being electricuted on top of a train. I actually agree the law is a bit wierd here. For example if those images or video's also included something class able as pornography it become extreme porn and hence illegal (at least here in the UK). Im not really sure where I stand on that (apart from the fact that the point is the viewer is more likely "getting off" on the porn or something) > but post a pic of your baby enjoying bathtime and you'll be hunted down and burned as a witch If you post it on a pedophile network well, then, probably you will be :) On other sites? Highly unlikely. And if you are investigated someone like me will prove the negative. Please dont forget; the VAST majority of people are caught in 3 ways: - by actively downloading from known and watched pedophile networks - by being caught IRL by someone and reported to the police - by grooming youngsters on the web and the victim / victims parents reporting it (sort of like #2 but more pro-active) As to the legality or morality of viewing these images; I choose not to comment. Because I suspect we differ entirely there. With all of that said: > and that there a thousands of them ready to strike on YOUR kids when you least expect it. I could not agree more with such a sentiment. It really annoys me (along with my colleagues) that the media/govt. persist these attitudes. It actually damages our efforts too.

axod 17y ago
>> "As to the legality or morality of viewing these images; I choose not to comment. Because I suspect we differ entirely there." Are you saying you believe simply viewing particular light patterns should be a crime? It's just bizarre. But as you say, I guess we disagree on that point. Should "thinking inappropriate thoughts about minors" be a crime also? Should we develop brain monitors and all wear funny hats? If you believe viewing such images should be illegal, then even law enforcement officers should not be able to view them - otherwise how do we know if they secretly 'enjoy' looking at them. The whole sorry exercise is one of thought policing.