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I would have loved this a few months ago. I've since switched to Ethereum and have been really happy with it. If you're trying to cram lots of data into OP_RETU

I would have loved this a few months ago. I've since switched to Ethereum and have been really happy with it. If you're trying to cram lots of data into OP_RETURNs, you should try looking at other blockchains.

bduerst 11y ago
How does Ethereum store data in a blockchain and what's the size?
- NH_2 11y ago
  I'm curious about this too. Also, what's the retrieval rate of the data? How much of it can you query at once? Is it different/faster on Ethereum?
  - aakilfernandes 11y ago
    I don't think there's a meaningful difference between the two, they're both essentially instant. Bitcoin doesnt make the data queryable in any way. You need to know the transactions where the data is stored ahead of time. With Ethereum, you can create a "contract" that emits "events" which automatically get added to a queryable database.
    - williamcotton 11y ago
      You're right, Bitcoin doesn't natively have a way to query a database, but here's an example of a how to read Blockcast transactions from the blockchain: https://github.com/blockai/blockcast-state-engine/blob/master/test.js#L32 https://github.com/blockai/blockcast-state-engine/blob/maste... The next step would be storing the results in a SQL database as we do with our production servers that maintain a queryable database of Open Publish registrations and transactions (Open Publish uses Blockcast for storing metadata on digital media assets). https://github.com/blockai/openpublish-state https://github.com/blockai/openpublish-state This is definitely a more piecemeal approach to creating smart contract applications than with Ethereum's one-stop-shop, but there are benefits to building on top of Bitcoin, especially for Open Publish, which uses native Bitcoin transactions for payments and royalties.
- aakilfernandes 11y ago
  You can store an arbitrary size of data up to the block limit. However your transaction fee scales with the size of data you want to add to the block chain.
- joeyspn 11y ago
  Nice read: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3hkv2f/eli5_storage_in_the_ethereum_blockchain/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3hkv2f/eli5_stora...
grandalf 11y ago
can you comment on the relative complexity of using this kind of thing in Bitcoin vs just using ethereum... Also the same question with respect to BIP65 and BIP112
- aakilfernandes 11y ago
  Depends on how much data you're trying to add to the blockchain. If its small enough to fit inside of a single OP_RETURN transaction, Bitcoin might be enough. Anything larger than that and Ethereum is a clear winner. Another important thing to remember is that Bitcoin has a block time of 10 minutes. That means that once your user submits data to the blockchain, they need to wait ~5 minutes for even 1 confirmation. Ethereum has a block time of 12 seconds.
  - brighton36 11y ago
    Not necessarily. Miners who mine ethereum are mining for idealogical reasons, and lose money to do so. As the cost to support this mining increase (in part due to the size of the Ethereum chain) it's reasonable that they will stop mining (thus bringing security to the potato), and/or prune the blockchain and stop hosting for free.
  - brighton36 11y ago
    As for the 12 second block time, that's a bug not a feature. If you don't know why, you should spend some time looking into it.
    - aakilfernandes 11y ago
      I did a quick google but didn't find anything. Mind giving me a link or at least a summary?
      - brighton36 11y ago
        Here's a start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0fHpQV9wHo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0fHpQV9wHo tldr: longer reorgs and less energy mean less security. Which, is presumably the reason to even use a blockchain
alphonse23 11y ago
but you'll never have the security of the original blockchain going with an alt-coin -- and I don't just mean technical security.
- aakilfernandes 11y ago
  Never is a long time. Are you really sure that no blockchain could ever offer a compelling enough advantage over Bitcoin to validate a larger investment in security research/mining?

bduerst 11y ago

How does Ethereum store data in a blockchain and what's the size?

NH_2 11y ago
I'm curious about this too. Also, what's the retrieval rate of the data? How much of it can you query at once? Is it different/faster on Ethereum?
- aakilfernandes 11y ago
  I don't think there's a meaningful difference between the two, they're both essentially instant. Bitcoin doesnt make the data queryable in any way. You need to know the transactions where the data is stored ahead of time. With Ethereum, you can create a "contract" that emits "events" which automatically get added to a queryable database.
  - williamcotton 11y ago
    You're right, Bitcoin doesn't natively have a way to query a database, but here's an example of a how to read Blockcast transactions from the blockchain: https://github.com/blockai/blockcast-state-engine/blob/master/test.js#L32 https://github.com/blockai/blockcast-state-engine/blob/maste... The next step would be storing the results in a SQL database as we do with our production servers that maintain a queryable database of Open Publish registrations and transactions (Open Publish uses Blockcast for storing metadata on digital media assets). https://github.com/blockai/openpublish-state https://github.com/blockai/openpublish-state This is definitely a more piecemeal approach to creating smart contract applications than with Ethereum's one-stop-shop, but there are benefits to building on top of Bitcoin, especially for Open Publish, which uses native Bitcoin transactions for payments and royalties.
aakilfernandes 11y ago
You can store an arbitrary size of data up to the block limit. However your transaction fee scales with the size of data you want to add to the block chain.
joeyspn 11y ago
Nice read: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3hkv2f/eli5_storage_in_the_ethereum_blockchain/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3hkv2f/eli5_stora...

grandalf 11y ago

can you comment on the relative complexity of using this kind of thing in Bitcoin vs just using ethereum... Also the same question with respect to BIP65 and BIP112

aakilfernandes 11y ago
Depends on how much data you're trying to add to the blockchain. If its small enough to fit inside of a single OP_RETURN transaction, Bitcoin might be enough. Anything larger than that and Ethereum is a clear winner. Another important thing to remember is that Bitcoin has a block time of 10 minutes. That means that once your user submits data to the blockchain, they need to wait ~5 minutes for even 1 confirmation. Ethereum has a block time of 12 seconds.
- brighton36 11y ago
  Not necessarily. Miners who mine ethereum are mining for idealogical reasons, and lose money to do so. As the cost to support this mining increase (in part due to the size of the Ethereum chain) it's reasonable that they will stop mining (thus bringing security to the potato), and/or prune the blockchain and stop hosting for free.
- brighton36 11y ago
  As for the 12 second block time, that's a bug not a feature. If you don't know why, you should spend some time looking into it.
  - aakilfernandes 11y ago
    I did a quick google but didn't find anything. Mind giving me a link or at least a summary?
    - brighton36 11y ago
      Here's a start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0fHpQV9wHo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0fHpQV9wHo tldr: longer reorgs and less energy mean less security. Which, is presumably the reason to even use a blockchain

alphonse23 11y ago

but you'll never have the security of the original blockchain going with an alt-coin -- and I don't just mean technical security.

aakilfernandes 11y ago
Never is a long time. Are you really sure that no blockchain could ever offer a compelling enough advantage over Bitcoin to validate a larger investment in security research/mining?