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A more interesting indicator that authors may consider is how many people living in the area do jogging. When I moved to London's SE4 postcode three years ago

A more interesting indicator that authors may consider is how many people living in the area do jogging. When I moved to London's SE4 postcode three years ago (it's pretty close to Peckham, FWIW), the regeneration of the area has just started and the more middle-class looking people appeared around, the more men and women in running gear were visible in the streets in the morning. Poor on average take worse care of their health and fitness, so tapping into Runkeeper's data may prove useful. In the meanwhile, during these three years, the value of my home grew more than 100%.

hueving 11y ago
That only works if outdoor jogging is strong in the culture. I've spent time in France and jogging through the neighborhood I was in (mid class) was quite out of place.
- digital_ins 11y ago
  to what you're saying - I would think jogging would be a prime example of 'network' effect. If you head out to Beverly Hills, you don't see anyone jogging except the dog walkers. But in certain parts of say, Hyderabad in India, the super-rich areas have massive number of 'walkers' (even though the air is highly polluted and walking there is probably detrimental)
notacoward 11y ago
Not a bad idea, but you'd have to adjust for age. There are tons of joggers around every college campus, for example, but those tend not to be great places for anyone else to live. Measuring at different times of day might be interesting too. As a runner (not jogger) myself, I do notice that there are very different kinds of people running at different times. The older folks tend to go out in the morning, while the late-afternoon crowds are distinctly young looking. Lunch-break and off-hour crowds are both in between. Which of these says what about home values or general desirability? I don't know, but it would be interesting to see the results.
tetrep 11y ago
I wonder if the various fitness apps would be willing to open their data to studies. It would be incredibly interesting to see an exercise heatmap overlayed with various other ones, especially housing prices.
rubidium 11y ago
I took this post as more of an exercise in data science. Data on jogging per neighborhood is a bit harder to find then coffee and chicken places.
- hammock 11y ago
  Not necessarily. http://popupcity.net/mapping-new-york-citys-runnability/ http://popupcity.net/mapping-new-york-citys-runnability/ http://gizmodo.com/the-worlds-most-popular-running-routes-visualized-1517283135 http://gizmodo.com/the-worlds-most-popular-running-routes-vi... http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#6/-120.90000/38.36000/blue/run http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#6/-120.90000/38.36000/blue/r...
  - Too 11y ago
    Not necessarily a good data source for mapping jogging, poor people don't have expensive smart phones to record their routes. This might make it even better for mapping wealth thought.
irl_zebra 11y ago
This might be helpful: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/ http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/
myth_buster 11y ago
Poor on average take worse care of their health and fitness I think it can be primarily attributed to the low income jobs being more physically and emotionally draining which result in them being sapped by the time they reach home. This can also be witnessed in the amount of nurture they can provide to their offspring. An interesting argument in one of the Quora thread about being rich was that financial freedom let's them have the flexibility to spend more time with their kids.
- jqm 11y ago
  It could be that, but it could also be a general approach towards life. Certainly people are born into poor circumstances and have many misfortunes. At the same time some people (for whatever reason) are just lazy, sloppy and don't take care of their lives. This approach likely produces both poverty and poor health and almost certainly entails lack of exercise. We can't excuse every bad thing that happens as an event out of people's personal control. There is too much of that going on lately and it doesn't help anyone imop.
  - Retra 11y ago
    Who's making excuses? Poor people often come from poor cultures -- ones that don't place value on things like jogging in the morning. That's just a fact, it isn't an excuse or a statement about personal control. And we, as a society, have the ability to influence both individual behavior and culture, so it doesn't even matter which one you want to assign blame to.
    - jqm 11y ago
      While not necessarily "excuse making", the original poster gives a reason he thinks poor people don't exercise (because they are working too hard). I believe, in general, the reasons poor people don't exercise are not that at all, but results from the same types of behaviors and attitudes that encourage poverty. I'm not assigning cause necessarily... I agree when you say the problem is likely often cultural. People from different cultures or with different metabolisms certainly have an easier/harder time dealing with certain things in life. But until attitudes and behaviors change (by whatever means), the facts on the ground stay the same. Very rarely is outcome 100% happenstance.
jrs235 11y ago
> the more men and women in running gear were visible in the streets in the morning. People who are fit enough to run: -are probably healthy and fit enough to regularly do yard maintenance and landscaping -probably don't smoke, leaving more available disposable income for home maintenance and improvements
curiousjorge 11y ago
Maybe poor on average can't exercise or buy health shit because they are working enriching those fucking joggers lives by working in factories, restaurants, kitchen, toilet and whatever other material whims of the privileged.
- pc86 11y ago
  You seem pretty angry about the fact that some people work in restaurants and some people go jogging in the morning.
  - curiousjorge 11y ago
    You clearly exhibit lack of empathy, a common trait of a psychopath.
    - dang 11y ago
      > You clearly exhibit lack of empathy, a common trait of a psychopath. We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the HN guidelines and ignoring our requests not to.
      - curiousjorge 11y ago
        lol fuck you dang
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
WildUtah 11y ago
Jogging, fried chicken, and coffee shops. Yup. You'd be paying fines and penalties if you posted this from the USA. I doubt there'd be criminal prosecution under 42 USC unless you repeatedly continued posting this kind of content after warnings, but that is not legal advice. It's illegal for anyone involved in the housing or real estate industries to propagate racist information. Also it's illegal to advocate racist opinions about housing policy in public discussions. And jogging is just as obvious as fried chicken and coffee shops.
- drdeca 11y ago
  Wait, What? There is a law against giving racist real estate advice? That, isn't actually true, is it? You are joking? Is that actually true?!
  - kruipen 11y ago
    Relax. Even if there is such a law it certainly is not illegal in USA to "advocate (...) opinions (...) in public". See what happened last time someone thought advocating opinions was illegal [1]... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
    - oh_sigh 11y ago
      The original poster is talking specifically about real estate professionals.
  - nsxwolf 11y ago
    I know that my wife isn't allowed to answer the question "Are the schools good here?" with anything other than "This home is in school district 123", or "you'll have to do your own research". It's considered "steering". (Because Good Schools is considered a dog whistle for "white neighborhood")
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      The policies enforced by particular offices (often based on an excess of caution, and often based on mythology of law rather than actual legal advice) are a different thing than the law. It absolutely is not illegal to provide answers to that question more directly when selling real estate (and, in fact, most agents I've dealt with or encountered will, though rather than providing their opinion they will rather directly provide statistical data which answers that question -- and others -- with comparative information; the package I got from the agent for the last house I considered buying included not only school performance information for the neighborhood compared to other areas in the region, but also income information, family size information, and other demographics.) Providing a bare and unsupported simple subjective "good" or "bad" answer is probably more legally dangerous than providing factual information, not because "good schools" is dog whistle for "white neighborhood" (in fact, its neither illegal nor uncommon to provide factual information which fairly directly gives information about ethnic/racial demographics), but because someone else might convince a court that your description was slanted because you were trying to steer the buyer based on your perception of their racial fit, rather than trying to provide them factual information about the existing character of the neighborhood which might be relevant to their decision.
garethsprice 11y ago
Hard to monitor programmatically - there's probably a ton of subtle indicators (ownership of espresso machines, holiday destinations, etc) but monitoring opening and closing of businesses in specific categories can be done quite easily on a large scale. Would be fascinating to map this in NYC or London and compare past patterns to see if it holds true.

hueving 11y ago

That only works if outdoor jogging is strong in the culture. I've spent time in France and jogging through the neighborhood I was in (mid class) was quite out of place.

digital_ins 11y ago
to what you're saying - I would think jogging would be a prime example of 'network' effect. If you head out to Beverly Hills, you don't see anyone jogging except the dog walkers. But in certain parts of say, Hyderabad in India, the super-rich areas have massive number of 'walkers' (even though the air is highly polluted and walking there is probably detrimental)

notacoward 11y ago

Not a bad idea, but you'd have to adjust for age. There are tons of joggers around every college campus, for example, but those tend not to be great places for anyone else to live. Measuring at different times of day might be interesting too. As a runner (not jogger) myself, I do notice that there are very different kinds of people running at different times. The older folks tend to go out in the morning, while the late-afternoon crowds are distinctly young looking. Lunch-break and off-hour crowds are both in between. Which of these says what about home values or general desirability? I don't know, but it would be interesting to see the results.

tetrep 11y ago

I wonder if the various fitness apps would be willing to open their data to studies. It would be incredibly interesting to see an exercise heatmap overlayed with various other ones, especially housing prices.

rubidium 11y ago

I took this post as more of an exercise in data science. Data on jogging per neighborhood is a bit harder to find then coffee and chicken places.

hammock 11y ago
Not necessarily. http://popupcity.net/mapping-new-york-citys-runnability/ http://popupcity.net/mapping-new-york-citys-runnability/ http://gizmodo.com/the-worlds-most-popular-running-routes-visualized-1517283135 http://gizmodo.com/the-worlds-most-popular-running-routes-vi... http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#6/-120.90000/38.36000/blue/run http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#6/-120.90000/38.36000/blue/r...
- Too 11y ago
  Not necessarily a good data source for mapping jogging, poor people don't have expensive smart phones to record their routes. This might make it even better for mapping wealth thought.

irl_zebra 11y ago

This might be helpful: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/ http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/

myth_buster 11y ago

Poor on average take worse care of their health and fitness I think it can be primarily attributed to the low income jobs being more physically and emotionally draining which result in them being sapped by the time they reach home. This can also be witnessed in the amount of nurture they can provide to their offspring. An interesting argument in one of the Quora thread about being rich was that financial freedom let's them have the flexibility to spend more time with their kids.

jqm 11y ago
It could be that, but it could also be a general approach towards life. Certainly people are born into poor circumstances and have many misfortunes. At the same time some people (for whatever reason) are just lazy, sloppy and don't take care of their lives. This approach likely produces both poverty and poor health and almost certainly entails lack of exercise. We can't excuse every bad thing that happens as an event out of people's personal control. There is too much of that going on lately and it doesn't help anyone imop.
- Retra 11y ago
  Who's making excuses? Poor people often come from poor cultures -- ones that don't place value on things like jogging in the morning. That's just a fact, it isn't an excuse or a statement about personal control. And we, as a society, have the ability to influence both individual behavior and culture, so it doesn't even matter which one you want to assign blame to.
  - jqm 11y ago
    While not necessarily "excuse making", the original poster gives a reason he thinks poor people don't exercise (because they are working too hard). I believe, in general, the reasons poor people don't exercise are not that at all, but results from the same types of behaviors and attitudes that encourage poverty. I'm not assigning cause necessarily... I agree when you say the problem is likely often cultural. People from different cultures or with different metabolisms certainly have an easier/harder time dealing with certain things in life. But until attitudes and behaviors change (by whatever means), the facts on the ground stay the same. Very rarely is outcome 100% happenstance.

jrs235 11y ago

> the more men and women in running gear were visible in the streets in the morning. People who are fit enough to run: -are probably healthy and fit enough to regularly do yard maintenance and landscaping -probably don't smoke, leaving more available disposable income for home maintenance and improvements

curiousjorge 11y ago

Maybe poor on average can't exercise or buy health shit because they are working enriching those fucking joggers lives by working in factories, restaurants, kitchen, toilet and whatever other material whims of the privileged.

pc86 11y ago
You seem pretty angry about the fact that some people work in restaurants and some people go jogging in the morning.
- curiousjorge 11y ago
  You clearly exhibit lack of empathy, a common trait of a psychopath.
  - dang 11y ago
    > You clearly exhibit lack of empathy, a common trait of a psychopath. We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the HN guidelines and ignoring our requests not to.
    - curiousjorge 11y ago
      lol fuck you dang

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

WildUtah 11y ago

Jogging, fried chicken, and coffee shops. Yup. You'd be paying fines and penalties if you posted this from the USA. I doubt there'd be criminal prosecution under 42 USC unless you repeatedly continued posting this kind of content after warnings, but that is not legal advice. It's illegal for anyone involved in the housing or real estate industries to propagate racist information. Also it's illegal to advocate racist opinions about housing policy in public discussions. And jogging is just as obvious as fried chicken and coffee shops.

drdeca 11y ago
Wait, What? There is a law against giving racist real estate advice? That, isn't actually true, is it? You are joking? Is that actually true?!
- kruipen 11y ago
  Relax. Even if there is such a law it certainly is not illegal in USA to "advocate (...) opinions (...) in public". See what happened last time someone thought advocating opinions was illegal [1]... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
  - oh_sigh 11y ago
    The original poster is talking specifically about real estate professionals.
- nsxwolf 11y ago
  I know that my wife isn't allowed to answer the question "Are the schools good here?" with anything other than "This home is in school district 123", or "you'll have to do your own research". It's considered "steering". (Because Good Schools is considered a dog whistle for "white neighborhood")
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    The policies enforced by particular offices (often based on an excess of caution, and often based on mythology of law rather than actual legal advice) are a different thing than the law. It absolutely is not illegal to provide answers to that question more directly when selling real estate (and, in fact, most agents I've dealt with or encountered will, though rather than providing their opinion they will rather directly provide statistical data which answers that question -- and others -- with comparative information; the package I got from the agent for the last house I considered buying included not only school performance information for the neighborhood compared to other areas in the region, but also income information, family size information, and other demographics.) Providing a bare and unsupported simple subjective "good" or "bad" answer is probably more legally dangerous than providing factual information, not because "good schools" is dog whistle for "white neighborhood" (in fact, its neither illegal nor uncommon to provide factual information which fairly directly gives information about ethnic/racial demographics), but because someone else might convince a court that your description was slanted because you were trying to steer the buyer based on your perception of their racial fit, rather than trying to provide them factual information about the existing character of the neighborhood which might be relevant to their decision.

garethsprice 11y ago

Hard to monitor programmatically - there's probably a ton of subtle indicators (ownership of espresso machines, holiday destinations, etc) but monitoring opening and closing of businesses in specific categories can be done quite easily on a large scale. Would be fascinating to map this in NYC or London and compare past patterns to see if it holds true.