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Where do I find evidence for this? I just checked, and the welfare state started in the 1880's by German conservatives, to fight bottom-up democracy and sociali

Where do I find evidence for this? I just checked, and the welfare state started in the 1880's by German conservatives, to fight bottom-up democracy and socialism. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state#History_of_welfare_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state#History_of_welfa...) Far before then, rulers and nation states restricted human movement. (http://newint.org/features/1991/09/05/simply/ http://newint.org/features/1991/09/05/simply/) Anyway, the welfare state (which includes government investment in fundamental tech which led to advances like computing, internet, etc) is a major driver of innovation and growth. More humans coming in, treated well, can obviously contribute. (As they already do, exploited for the most miserable societal tasks.)

notahacker 11y ago
It's historically inaccurate, but in practice true that without slowing down immigration it's pretty much impossible to sustain a system in which people "looking for work" are entitled to higher PPP incomes and better services than labourers in virtually all the rest of the world. (But there are obvious drawbacks to taking things to the opposite extreme and banning all immigration: it might be a lot more difficult and expensive to run the NHS without immigrant healthcare professionals, for example) But of course you're right that borders have been closed by leaders believing they help enforce cultural and political stability for eons before that.
LoSboccacc 11y ago
official welfare state might have become a thing just recently but the concept behind like redistribution of wealth and creating opportunities for class mobility predates it by a couple millenia http://www.britannica.com/topic/alimenta http://www.britannica.com/topic/alimenta http://www.britannica.com/topic/civitas http://www.britannica.com/topic/civitas

notahacker 11y ago

It's historically inaccurate, but in practice true that without slowing down immigration it's pretty much impossible to sustain a system in which people "looking for work" are entitled to higher PPP incomes and better services than labourers in virtually all the rest of the world. (But there are obvious drawbacks to taking things to the opposite extreme and banning all immigration: it might be a lot more difficult and expensive to run the NHS without immigrant healthcare professionals, for example) But of course you're right that borders have been closed by leaders believing they help enforce cultural and political stability for eons before that.

LoSboccacc 11y ago

official welfare state might have become a thing just recently but the concept behind like redistribution of wealth and creating opportunities for class mobility predates it by a couple millenia http://www.britannica.com/topic/alimenta http://www.britannica.com/topic/alimenta http://www.britannica.com/topic/civitas http://www.britannica.com/topic/civitas