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This depends on your view of the nature of technology vs. the nature of political institutions. I tend to believe that, with time as the X-axis, that the natur

by jMyles 11y ago

This depends on your view of the nature of technology vs. the nature of political institutions. I tend to believe that, with time as the X-axis, that the nature of technology is on a positive curve with regard to liberty while the nature of political institutions is on a negative one.

bitJericho 11y ago
Your beliefs are opposite the reality. Invasion of privacy has never been so high
- BinaryIdiot 11y ago
  Well that doesn't technically preclude the parent's thought; we could simply be at the beginning of the curve in his / her graph.
dogma1138 11y ago
Technology can be positive or negative it's all in the application, but that's not the issue. It's not that the NSA is inherently bad or good, as long as it exists it will be able to break crypto because that is it's mission, the US needs that ability for national security but it doesn't mean that the NSA has to apply their capabilities to cast a net on the entire planet. That said it's very unlikely that an organization with virtually unlimited funding, and a recruitment monopoly on the best and the brightest in the field of cryptography and computer security will lose on the technology front. Trying to disarm the NSA is effectively trying to disarm the US that won't fly, the only option is to ensure that they use it only when its explicitly warranted and not as a business as usual tool.
- aianus 11y ago
  > the US needs that ability for national security Bullshit. > recruitment monopoly on the best and the brightest in the field of cryptography and computer security Again, bullshit. The NSA can't compete on compensation and there are plenty of people who refuse to work there out of principle alone.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    It's not bullshit the NSA plays a pivotal role in ensuring US national security, that doesn't mean that their current actions are justified, but having the means is a national security mandate in the current geopolitical climate. And the NSA doesn't need to compete on monetary compensation, it competes on a whole 'nother level which is giving people the biggest challenges to solve while having access to unparalleled levels of resources and cutting edge technology. Bell Lab's didn't compete on compensation either, but it was where everyone wanted to work because of the environment. You also disregard nationalism, patriotism, and the ability of the intelligence community to groom targets which they've perfected into an art form.
    - aianus 11y ago
      > You also disregard nationalism, patriotism, and the ability of the intelligence community to groom targets which they've perfected into an art form. I'm not saying those things don't exist or that the NSA is incapable of hiring competent people, I'm disputing your claim that the NSA has a 'monopoly' on recruiting the best and brightest. I've seen no significant correlation in my personal experiences between skill in mathematics and patriotism.
freshhawk 11y ago
I'm curious why you think the nature of technology is on a positive curve with regard to liberty. Technology is a power multiplier. In the context of a graph of liberty vs time it would simply make moving that curve on the Y axis exponentially easier. So either you disagree with that or you have some optimistic views on human nature with regards to liberty. Add in the problem that that the less liberty there is the easier/more likely it is for more to be removed, increases in liberty are up hill, so to speak, compared to decreases as a side issue.

by jMyles 11y ago

bitJericho 11y ago

Your beliefs are opposite the reality. Invasion of privacy has never been so high

BinaryIdiot 11y ago
Well that doesn't technically preclude the parent's thought; we could simply be at the beginning of the curve in his / her graph.

dogma1138 11y ago

Technology can be positive or negative it's all in the application, but that's not the issue. It's not that the NSA is inherently bad or good, as long as it exists it will be able to break crypto because that is it's mission, the US needs that ability for national security but it doesn't mean that the NSA has to apply their capabilities to cast a net on the entire planet. That said it's very unlikely that an organization with virtually unlimited funding, and a recruitment monopoly on the best and the brightest in the field of cryptography and computer security will lose on the technology front. Trying to disarm the NSA is effectively trying to disarm the US that won't fly, the only option is to ensure that they use it only when its explicitly warranted and not as a business as usual tool.

aianus 11y ago
> the US needs that ability for national security Bullshit. > recruitment monopoly on the best and the brightest in the field of cryptography and computer security Again, bullshit. The NSA can't compete on compensation and there are plenty of people who refuse to work there out of principle alone.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  It's not bullshit the NSA plays a pivotal role in ensuring US national security, that doesn't mean that their current actions are justified, but having the means is a national security mandate in the current geopolitical climate. And the NSA doesn't need to compete on monetary compensation, it competes on a whole 'nother level which is giving people the biggest challenges to solve while having access to unparalleled levels of resources and cutting edge technology. Bell Lab's didn't compete on compensation either, but it was where everyone wanted to work because of the environment. You also disregard nationalism, patriotism, and the ability of the intelligence community to groom targets which they've perfected into an art form.
  - aianus 11y ago
    > You also disregard nationalism, patriotism, and the ability of the intelligence community to groom targets which they've perfected into an art form. I'm not saying those things don't exist or that the NSA is incapable of hiring competent people, I'm disputing your claim that the NSA has a 'monopoly' on recruiting the best and brightest. I've seen no significant correlation in my personal experiences between skill in mathematics and patriotism.

freshhawk 11y ago

I'm curious why you think the nature of technology is on a positive curve with regard to liberty. Technology is a power multiplier. In the context of a graph of liberty vs time it would simply make moving that curve on the Y axis exponentially easier. So either you disagree with that or you have some optimistic views on human nature with regards to liberty. Add in the problem that that the less liberty there is the easier/more likely it is for more to be removed, increases in liberty are up hill, so to speak, compared to decreases as a side issue.