5 ms·

I see this strange contradiction where some people are saying "this is nothing new, other manufacturers had this years ago" and yet somehow other manufacturers

I see this strange contradiction where some people are saying "this is nothing new, other manufacturers had this years ago" and yet somehow other manufacturers don't get reaction videos on youtube and don't get to the top of hacker news and reddit....it seems very clear to me that what Tesla has done is above and beyond anything in the past. If this already existed, nobody would really care. You could make the whole brand argument, like with Apple releasing the iPad, but....I simply disagree. Tesla deserves the credit they're getting.

pxtang 11y ago
Well, that's because they're Tesla. Benz has had very similar features on their higher-end cars, and it was well received (I think) in the automotive industry, but not the tech community, because Tesla is more well known in tech compared to Benz.
- gregpilling 11y ago
  and Hyundai https://youtu.be/Xbjdmw8D9-Y https://youtu.be/Xbjdmw8D9-Y
  - eclipxe 11y ago
    Yeah, great marketing video. Here is reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3TLRaMVIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3TLRaMVIY Ping pong back and forth in the lane, no curve steering. Bleh.
whateveracct 11y ago
Wait, so you see that it is a fact that many of these features have been in existence in regular cars under various names. It's undeniable, ofc. But __then__ you somehow refuse to believe that they are actually the same because it's on the top of HN and other media outlets. And then somehow you feel qualified to say Tesla deserve the credit their getting? It isn't "making the whole brand argument." You __are__ just being a sucker!
- aerovistae 11y ago
  Can you find me a video of another brand's car doing what you see the Model S doing in this video? I was unable to find any. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yCAZWdqX_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yCAZWdqX_Y
  - gregpilling 11y ago
    posted a year ago https://youtu.be/Xbjdmw8D9-Y https://youtu.be/Xbjdmw8D9-Y
    - eclipxe 11y ago
      And here is the reality of that same car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3TLRaMVIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3TLRaMVIY
      - henrikschroder 11y ago
        That's pretty similar to the current Mercedes E-class, it doesn't work very well at high speeds. Note that the Tesla reaction video is as low speeds in stop & go traffic, and my car is just as good there. It would be interesting to test the Tesla in the same conditions as the Hyundai is failing in.
        eclipxe 11y ago
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RacNa2q-Ykg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RacNa2q-Ykg
        henrikschroder 11y ago
        Nice, it appears to be much better than my car at high speeds! I'm quite envious of the OTA update, there's no way Mercedes will every upgrade the Distronic software in my car, if I want the improved version, I have to buy a newer model. :-/
csours 11y ago
Elon Musk is undeniable a hype machine. A lot of it is deserved, to be sure: He doesn't have 100 years of history weighing him down; he hasn't made a lemon yet; his cars are actually pretty awesome. But... all these features do already exist in other brands. Disclaimer: I work for GM
- windexh8er 11y ago
  They may exist, but that's not the fundamental difference between Tesla and <enter most all other brands>. The first difference is long-term buyer delight and is clearly shown in the first sentence of the linked article: "Model S is designed to to keep getting better over time." Everyone else's stance? That was last years model - if you want the new UI and/or new features buy the current model year car. There is, most often, zero expectation for car buyers today to expect upgrades or enhancements that are as drastic and as positively interesting as how Tesla approaches it. The second, and likely more critical differentiator (IMO), is security. Mr. Musk would not accept public shaming of such magnitude like this: http://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-takeover-hack-millions-onstar-cars/ http://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-takeov... And I only pick on GM here since, well, you work there. When it comes to software in cars Tesla treats it as a true part of the vehicle engineering. Others seems to still treat it as an afterthought - and then the question starts to linger: how good is the software in all of the other vendors "features"? How much QA have they done with regard to lane keep, blind spot, adaptive cruise, etc? I don't own a Tesla, I really wish I did, but if I had to place a wager on a car manufacturers QA process and ability to build fault tolerant vehicle systems I would pick Tesla to oust the competition handily at this point. While I realize it's a subjective matter, and there's really no good way to compare, the directive of the company seems pointed in a more apt approach than others. $0.02.
  - csours 11y ago
    To be clear: I, personally, am really happy there are strong challengers in the car market. Also, I am speaking solely for myself. The quote: "Model S is designed to keep getting better over time" reminds me of kaizen (1). It is a really awesome concept that not only can the car manufacturing process and technology keep getting better, but the cars can improve as well. That being said: OTA update is REALLY FUCKING SCARY for cars. What if someone puts the wrong update in the queue accidentally? (2) The historic attitude to modules in cars is also important. Modules run "code", but it is treated as mechanically as possible. Could you imagine changing out a few pistons while driving? Probably not. This is a failure of imagination that is being addressed now! It is a truism that Big, Old, Large companies are risk-averse. The downside to doing a bad OTA to a car is unlimited! WRT to Tesla's QA - I don't know of anything that has been published in this regard. I would hope they are "doing it right". I hope they are successful, and I hope everyone is inspired by their leadership and learns from them. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen - Article claims it was introduced by American business people, but Japanese companies continuously improved it =D 2. http://www.techtimes.com/articles/90219/20151001/oops-sorry-microsoft-pushes-out-windows-7-test-patch-by-accident.htm http://www.techtimes.com/articles/90219/20151001/oops-sorry-...
lightcatcher 11y ago
I think it's a mix of effects. Tesla is definitely pushing car engineering in some respects, but as far as I can tell the only thing new in this story is that the feature was added to the cars in a software update. Do you really think Audi would be #1 on Hacker News if they updated the 5 series over the air to stay in it's lane automatically while on the highway? I've had a bit of cognitive dissonance recently while reading Elon Musk's comments on Apple's electric car project because I have to remind myself Tesla isn't owned by Apple. Tesla does do some great engineering, but I think they have also Apple levels of hype within technology circles.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  > Tesla is definitely pushing car engineering in some respects, but as far as I can tell the only thing new in this story is that the feature was added to the cars in a software update. Do you really think Audi would be #1 on Hacker News if they updated the 5 series over the air to stay in it's lane automatically while on the highway? If they played it the way Tesla did, they probably would. Recall that nobody buying Model S knew about those capabilities up until the moment Tesla announced, "by the way, at some point we've started packing Model S with sensors; if you've bought recently then you have self-driving capabilities that we'll enable soon with a software update". This came as a surprise for everyone.
- Bud 11y ago
  It's tiresome enough to read ignorant people alleging that Apple's success is due to "hype" rather than superior product when Apple is actually the topic at hand. Do we have to read it at other times, too, now? I hope not.
h1029239 11y ago
That is literally stuff that I learned about in driving school. Why should I care about such mundane things?
acheron 11y ago
Well, now we see where Jobs's reality distortion field went.

pxtang 11y ago

Well, that's because they're Tesla. Benz has had very similar features on their higher-end cars, and it was well received (I think) in the automotive industry, but not the tech community, because Tesla is more well known in tech compared to Benz.

gregpilling 11y ago
and Hyundai https://youtu.be/Xbjdmw8D9-Y https://youtu.be/Xbjdmw8D9-Y
- eclipxe 11y ago
  Yeah, great marketing video. Here is reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3TLRaMVIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3TLRaMVIY Ping pong back and forth in the lane, no curve steering. Bleh.

whateveracct 11y ago

Wait, so you see that it is a fact that many of these features have been in existence in regular cars under various names. It's undeniable, ofc. But __then__ you somehow refuse to believe that they are actually the same because it's on the top of HN and other media outlets. And then somehow you feel qualified to say Tesla deserve the credit their getting? It isn't "making the whole brand argument." You __are__ just being a sucker!

aerovistae 11y ago
Can you find me a video of another brand's car doing what you see the Model S doing in this video? I was unable to find any. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yCAZWdqX_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yCAZWdqX_Y
- gregpilling 11y ago
  posted a year ago https://youtu.be/Xbjdmw8D9-Y https://youtu.be/Xbjdmw8D9-Y
  - eclipxe 11y ago
    And here is the reality of that same car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3TLRaMVIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3TLRaMVIY
    - henrikschroder 11y ago
      That's pretty similar to the current Mercedes E-class, it doesn't work very well at high speeds. Note that the Tesla reaction video is as low speeds in stop & go traffic, and my car is just as good there. It would be interesting to test the Tesla in the same conditions as the Hyundai is failing in.
      - eclipxe 11y ago
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RacNa2q-Ykg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RacNa2q-Ykg
        henrikschroder 11y ago
        Nice, it appears to be much better than my car at high speeds! I'm quite envious of the OTA update, there's no way Mercedes will every upgrade the Distronic software in my car, if I want the improved version, I have to buy a newer model. :-/

csours 11y ago

Elon Musk is undeniable a hype machine. A lot of it is deserved, to be sure: He doesn't have 100 years of history weighing him down; he hasn't made a lemon yet; his cars are actually pretty awesome. But... all these features do already exist in other brands. Disclaimer: I work for GM

windexh8er 11y ago
They may exist, but that's not the fundamental difference between Tesla and <enter most all other brands>. The first difference is long-term buyer delight and is clearly shown in the first sentence of the linked article: "Model S is designed to to keep getting better over time." Everyone else's stance? That was last years model - if you want the new UI and/or new features buy the current model year car. There is, most often, zero expectation for car buyers today to expect upgrades or enhancements that are as drastic and as positively interesting as how Tesla approaches it. The second, and likely more critical differentiator (IMO), is security. Mr. Musk would not accept public shaming of such magnitude like this: http://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-takeover-hack-millions-onstar-cars/ http://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-takeov... And I only pick on GM here since, well, you work there. When it comes to software in cars Tesla treats it as a true part of the vehicle engineering. Others seems to still treat it as an afterthought - and then the question starts to linger: how good is the software in all of the other vendors "features"? How much QA have they done with regard to lane keep, blind spot, adaptive cruise, etc? I don't own a Tesla, I really wish I did, but if I had to place a wager on a car manufacturers QA process and ability to build fault tolerant vehicle systems I would pick Tesla to oust the competition handily at this point. While I realize it's a subjective matter, and there's really no good way to compare, the directive of the company seems pointed in a more apt approach than others. $0.02.
- csours 11y ago
  To be clear: I, personally, am really happy there are strong challengers in the car market. Also, I am speaking solely for myself. The quote: "Model S is designed to keep getting better over time" reminds me of kaizen (1). It is a really awesome concept that not only can the car manufacturing process and technology keep getting better, but the cars can improve as well. That being said: OTA update is REALLY FUCKING SCARY for cars. What if someone puts the wrong update in the queue accidentally? (2) The historic attitude to modules in cars is also important. Modules run "code", but it is treated as mechanically as possible. Could you imagine changing out a few pistons while driving? Probably not. This is a failure of imagination that is being addressed now! It is a truism that Big, Old, Large companies are risk-averse. The downside to doing a bad OTA to a car is unlimited! WRT to Tesla's QA - I don't know of anything that has been published in this regard. I would hope they are "doing it right". I hope they are successful, and I hope everyone is inspired by their leadership and learns from them. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen - Article claims it was introduced by American business people, but Japanese companies continuously improved it =D 2. http://www.techtimes.com/articles/90219/20151001/oops-sorry-microsoft-pushes-out-windows-7-test-patch-by-accident.htm http://www.techtimes.com/articles/90219/20151001/oops-sorry-...

lightcatcher 11y ago

I think it's a mix of effects. Tesla is definitely pushing car engineering in some respects, but as far as I can tell the only thing new in this story is that the feature was added to the cars in a software update. Do you really think Audi would be #1 on Hacker News if they updated the 5 series over the air to stay in it's lane automatically while on the highway? I've had a bit of cognitive dissonance recently while reading Elon Musk's comments on Apple's electric car project because I have to remind myself Tesla isn't owned by Apple. Tesla does do some great engineering, but I think they have also Apple levels of hype within technology circles.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
> Tesla is definitely pushing car engineering in some respects, but as far as I can tell the only thing new in this story is that the feature was added to the cars in a software update. Do you really think Audi would be #1 on Hacker News if they updated the 5 series over the air to stay in it's lane automatically while on the highway? If they played it the way Tesla did, they probably would. Recall that nobody buying Model S knew about those capabilities up until the moment Tesla announced, "by the way, at some point we've started packing Model S with sensors; if you've bought recently then you have self-driving capabilities that we'll enable soon with a software update". This came as a surprise for everyone.
Bud 11y ago
It's tiresome enough to read ignorant people alleging that Apple's success is due to "hype" rather than superior product when Apple is actually the topic at hand. Do we have to read it at other times, too, now? I hope not.

h1029239 11y ago

That is literally stuff that I learned about in driving school. Why should I care about such mundane things?

acheron 11y ago

Well, now we see where Jobs's reality distortion field went.