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This is the first time I've read excerpts from these "manifestos" and it's hard to know how to react. It all reads like a kind of mental illness and it's chilli

This is the first time I've read excerpts from these "manifestos" and it's hard to know how to react. It all reads like a kind of mental illness and it's chilling to see the similarities (although this article may only make them look similar). Intellectually I feel like there should be room for sympathy of some kind, but to be honest, I feel nothing of the kind; just angry. The authors strike me as small, pathetic, misguided and (for me, worst of all) demanding and entitled. In terms of constructive moves to try and deal with this issue, it's hard to think of anything substantive. For sure, less guns means these individuals would have taken fewer lives. Perhaps a better attitude toward mental illness and easier to access treatment options might help. On the other hand, it doesn't sound like these people though they were mentally ill. On the contrary, they felt the opposite. I found the bits about how special they think they are to be particularly striking. I certainly feel that my daughter is special, but I understand that what makes her most special is that she is my daughter. The idea that everyone should be, in some way, globally special seems somewhat misguided.

tunesmith 11y ago
The tough part is knowing that for every one of those that shoots up a bunch of people, there's an untold number of people that might feel similar feelings of alienation and agitation, but don't end up taking those final planning and action steps. In other words, before the killers took those final steps towards becoming a monster, there's not a really good way to differentiate them from someone else who never becomes a monster. This is where I think the whole discussion goes off the rails - the emphasis is in figuring out how to identify these "potential monsters", or in preventing these "potential monsters" from having the means to accomplish their ends. But if it's impossible to define a test/indicator such that, if it's true then they'll probably shoot up a school down the line, and if it's false then they probably won't, then where does that leave us? I think it leaves us in a place of not treating these people as potential monsters, but instead as normal kids struggling with feelings of alienation and lack of purpose, and giving them love and support. Not looking for signs of "potential school shooters" and seeking to prevent it, but looking for signs of loneliness and alienation, and seeking to give support. I just think that for a lot of us, we've probably had times in our past where we had a lot in common with the people that had not yet shot up a bunch of people. So when we think of what might have made our lives better at those times, maybe it would have helped some of them too. There the emphasis is more on just helping alienated kids feel less alone, knowing that for a very small percentage of them, it very well could prevent some real tragedies later on.
AdeptusAquinas 11y ago
I think you have hit on the one key similarity, at least in the examples cited. They all seem to feel they 'deserve' something, that the world owes them a relationship, sex, power, money etc. When they don't get it they get frustrated and angry, and eventually violent because they feel they are being 'cheated', 'oppressed'. I've read that that Elliot guy also harboured a racist belief that he was better than african-americans, and thought it a huge injustice that he couldn't get a girlfriend but saw african-americans who could.
- agarden 11y ago
  Elliot Rodger's manifesto: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/05/25/us/shooting-document.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/05/25/us/shooting-do... Rodger thought it was a huge injustice that anyone else could have a girlfriend -- or anything else -- when he couldn't. Though he never seems to have actually summoned the courage to ask a girl out.

tunesmith 11y ago

The tough part is knowing that for every one of those that shoots up a bunch of people, there's an untold number of people that might feel similar feelings of alienation and agitation, but don't end up taking those final planning and action steps. In other words, before the killers took those final steps towards becoming a monster, there's not a really good way to differentiate them from someone else who never becomes a monster. This is where I think the whole discussion goes off the rails - the emphasis is in figuring out how to identify these "potential monsters", or in preventing these "potential monsters" from having the means to accomplish their ends. But if it's impossible to define a test/indicator such that, if it's true then they'll probably shoot up a school down the line, and if it's false then they probably won't, then where does that leave us? I think it leaves us in a place of not treating these people as potential monsters, but instead as normal kids struggling with feelings of alienation and lack of purpose, and giving them love and support. Not looking for signs of "potential school shooters" and seeking to prevent it, but looking for signs of loneliness and alienation, and seeking to give support. I just think that for a lot of us, we've probably had times in our past where we had a lot in common with the people that had not yet shot up a bunch of people. So when we think of what might have made our lives better at those times, maybe it would have helped some of them too. There the emphasis is more on just helping alienated kids feel less alone, knowing that for a very small percentage of them, it very well could prevent some real tragedies later on.

AdeptusAquinas 11y ago

I think you have hit on the one key similarity, at least in the examples cited. They all seem to feel they 'deserve' something, that the world owes them a relationship, sex, power, money etc. When they don't get it they get frustrated and angry, and eventually violent because they feel they are being 'cheated', 'oppressed'. I've read that that Elliot guy also harboured a racist belief that he was better than african-americans, and thought it a huge injustice that he couldn't get a girlfriend but saw african-americans who could.

agarden 11y ago
Elliot Rodger's manifesto: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/05/25/us/shooting-document.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/05/25/us/shooting-do... Rodger thought it was a huge injustice that anyone else could have a girlfriend -- or anything else -- when he couldn't. Though he never seems to have actually summoned the courage to ask a girl out.