4 ms·

Not even close; here's an accounting I did covering just Western Europe just for this century as of a little over 2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item

by hga 11y ago

Not even close; here's an accounting I did covering just Western Europe just for this century as of a little over 2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4970408 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4970408 and the same with some discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5070201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5070201 Add e.g. Canada and "[it's] overwhelmingly a US problem" is even less true.

maxerickson 11y ago
If you show the US data, people could compare the numbers and draw their own conclusion.
DanBC 11y ago
That's 20, for all of Europe, since 2000. The US has had over 30 mass killings this year. And that's only the events where four or more people were killed. It doesn't include events like Sept 28th 2015 Miami Florida where 15 people were shot but no-one died. Sept 28th 2015 Miami Florida - I need to include all that information because there were also shootings on that day in Indianapolis, IN; Walterboro, SC; and Philadelphia, PA, and there were shootings (often different events on the same day) on September 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 11th, 14th, 15th, 18th, 19th 20th, 21st, 29th, and 30th September. > Not even close Really? http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-leads-world-in-mass-shootings-1443905359 http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-leads-world-in-mass-shooting... > The U.S. represents less than 5% of the 7.3 billion global population but accounted for 31% of global mass shooters during the period from 1966 to 2012, more than any other country, Mr. Lankford said, adding that he defines a mass shooter as one who killed at least four victims. The 90 killers who carried out mass shootings in the U.S. amounted to five times as many as the next highest country, the Philippines, according to his research.
- hga 11y ago
  Those are different classes of "mass killings", Wikipedians aren't going to collect all the cases of where 4 or more people were killed, and my postings were not intended to discuss scale, just to refute the lie that this is a uniquely American phenomenon with 2000-~2012 examples. Which is not quite what you claimed, you said "overwhelmingly", and that's sufficiently vague I suspect it's a debatable point. Paywall stops me from the WSJ article, but I know that people who study this sort of thing that I trust have said at minimum the FBI's recent study was bunk, and that's enough for me on this topic.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    You tell me what you're counting as a mass killing, and then I can show you how that event is overwhelmingly something that happens in the US. You've pointed to less than two events per year for Europe for this century. How about six people killed? There have been 13 events in the US where six people were shot and killed since Jan 1 2013. You're wrong anyway. From your own post: > De Gelder, Kim, 20, Jan. 16/23,, 2009, Belgium, 4, 12 > Bosse, Bastian, 18, Nov. 20, 2006, Germany, 0, 22 > Radmacher, Sabine, 41, Sep. 19, 2010, Germany, 3, 18 (arson was also used) > Sacco, Angelo Secondo, 54, June 28, 2005, Italy, 3, 9 Numbers killed: 4, zero, 3, and 3. Wikipedians are going to list every event that happens in Europe, because these events are so rare. They are by definition news worthy, which provides a lot of reliable sources. But US mass shootings are so common that they hardly make the news. The fact that you dismiss an event where 15 people were shot but not killed as not being relevant, or you dismiss events where 4 people or more are killed as not being mass killings is a sign that this conversation is pointless: you're blind to the facts. > this is a uniquely American I didn't say uniquely, I said overwhelmingly. It is overwhelmingly a US problem. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/0...
    - donw 11y ago
      That article cites 'shootingtracker.com' as a source, which is a known-false propaganda site, as it includes accidents with airsoft guns in their list of "mass shootings". I have been shot by an airsoft gun. It stung a bit. Since January 1st, 2013, Wikipedia shows six mass killings in the United States, two in China, and four in continental Europe.

by hga 11y ago

maxerickson 11y ago

If you show the US data, people could compare the numbers and draw their own conclusion.

DanBC 11y ago

That's 20, for all of Europe, since 2000. The US has had over 30 mass killings this year. And that's only the events where four or more people were killed. It doesn't include events like Sept 28th 2015 Miami Florida where 15 people were shot but no-one died. Sept 28th 2015 Miami Florida - I need to include all that information because there were also shootings on that day in Indianapolis, IN; Walterboro, SC; and Philadelphia, PA, and there were shootings (often different events on the same day) on September 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 11th, 14th, 15th, 18th, 19th 20th, 21st, 29th, and 30th September. > Not even close Really? http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-leads-world-in-mass-shootings-1443905359 http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-leads-world-in-mass-shooting... > The U.S. represents less than 5% of the 7.3 billion global population but accounted for 31% of global mass shooters during the period from 1966 to 2012, more than any other country, Mr. Lankford said, adding that he defines a mass shooter as one who killed at least four victims. The 90 killers who carried out mass shootings in the U.S. amounted to five times as many as the next highest country, the Philippines, according to his research.

hga 11y ago
Those are different classes of "mass killings", Wikipedians aren't going to collect all the cases of where 4 or more people were killed, and my postings were not intended to discuss scale, just to refute the lie that this is a uniquely American phenomenon with 2000-~2012 examples. Which is not quite what you claimed, you said "overwhelmingly", and that's sufficiently vague I suspect it's a debatable point. Paywall stops me from the WSJ article, but I know that people who study this sort of thing that I trust have said at minimum the FBI's recent study was bunk, and that's enough for me on this topic.
- DanBC 11y ago
  You tell me what you're counting as a mass killing, and then I can show you how that event is overwhelmingly something that happens in the US. You've pointed to less than two events per year for Europe for this century. How about six people killed? There have been 13 events in the US where six people were shot and killed since Jan 1 2013. You're wrong anyway. From your own post: > De Gelder, Kim, 20, Jan. 16/23,, 2009, Belgium, 4, 12 > Bosse, Bastian, 18, Nov. 20, 2006, Germany, 0, 22 > Radmacher, Sabine, 41, Sep. 19, 2010, Germany, 3, 18 (arson was also used) > Sacco, Angelo Secondo, 54, June 28, 2005, Italy, 3, 9 Numbers killed: 4, zero, 3, and 3. Wikipedians are going to list every event that happens in Europe, because these events are so rare. They are by definition news worthy, which provides a lot of reliable sources. But US mass shootings are so common that they hardly make the news. The fact that you dismiss an event where 15 people were shot but not killed as not being relevant, or you dismiss events where 4 people or more are killed as not being mass killings is a sign that this conversation is pointless: you're blind to the facts. > this is a uniquely American I didn't say uniquely, I said overwhelmingly. It is overwhelmingly a US problem. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/0...
  - donw 11y ago
    That article cites 'shootingtracker.com' as a source, which is a known-false propaganda site, as it includes accidents with airsoft guns in their list of "mass shootings". I have been shot by an airsoft gun. It stung a bit. Since January 1st, 2013, Wikipedia shows six mass killings in the United States, two in China, and four in continental Europe.