3 ms·

Very well written and interesting. While some people put the blame on firearms (lets not turn this into a debate on gun control) i believe that its the media at

Very well written and interesting. While some people put the blame on firearms (lets not turn this into a debate on gun control) i believe that its the media attention that is the biggest culprit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

venomsnake 11y ago
I was expecting a Natural Born Killers scene here.
manachar 11y ago
"Let's not turn this into a debate on BLANK, instead let's talk about my pet theory BLANK". Seems like that's the only constant after any sort of horrific tragedy. It becomes grist in the mill for people to push their pre-existing agendas. For some it has been a push for greater gun control. For others it has been a push for greater funding and understanding of mental health. For others, you blame media attention. Personally, I view these events as "side-effects" of our society. And we're basically loathe to examine it too deeply as it can call into question some deeply held parts of American culture.
- avar 11y ago
  As the linked article covers this is not exclusive to America, that's probably one correlation we can genuinely throw out.
  - manachar 11y ago
    To be fair, it does happen more often in America, which may provide some information to see the underlying conditions that lead to the kind of desperate isolation seen in these manifestos.
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  "Reduce media attention to criminals" seems like an odd pre-existing personal agenda. What ulterior motive could that possibly correspond to?
  - manachar 11y ago
    Blaming media has gotten increasingly popular for a variety of societal ills. It's just a favorite boogeyman to go after. Much like people who blame violent video games or 4chan. The ulterior motive is to use the situation to disparage something they already don't like.
    - jjoonathan 11y ago
      Yes, I'm sure people blame the media because they perceive it as popular and not because killers leave manifestos saying they do it because of the attention it will bring them. >‘I have noticed,’ it says, ‘that so many people like him are all alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. A man who was known by no one is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems the more people you kill, the more you’re in the limelight.’ -TFA
      - manachar 11y ago
        It's not the media that causes the individual to crave the media attention or infamy. Does our media contribute? Absolutely. But they are the way they are because of the way we are. Or at least the way the consumers of media are.
anigbrowl 11y ago
Media attention may well be the biggest motivator for such actions, but once someone gives in to their murderous impulses guns make it very easy to kill a lot of people, simply by being highly optimized. You can quickly kill more people with a bomb, but they're relatively hard to manufacture and deploy; you can very easily kill someone with a knife or any number of other close-quarters weapons, but it's not reliable or efficient to do so. Thus, while soldiers deployed in combat usually have a knife and may well have hand grenades or other explosives, firearms are the primary weapons by a mile. I'm not in favor of gun confiscation (and don't plan on getting into any arguments on gun policy today) but it would be absurd to ignore the technological-economic impact of guns on the production of murder. Suggesting that media eschew reporting the news, even to the point of sensationalizing it, is irrational given both what we know about human behavior and the constitutional safeguards against censorship in the US. To be honest, I think people who blame the media are simply demonstrating their own strong preference for social proof and then projecting that motivation onto murderous individuals. It is very likely a significant factor but I don't think we have anywhere near enough data to conclude that it is a primary motivator.
- hga 11y ago
  Although it's worth pointing out that some of the worst US mass murders were arsons, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_Plaza_Hotel_arson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_Plaza_Hotel_arson and there's one I'm having difficultly finding that was almost as bad set in the entrance of a NYC nightclub. That people in the US choose guns vs. fire is I'm sure cultural, including fire safety being part of our culture, i.e. the "payoff" will seldom be great.

venomsnake 11y ago

I was expecting a Natural Born Killers scene here.

manachar 11y ago

"Let's not turn this into a debate on BLANK, instead let's talk about my pet theory BLANK". Seems like that's the only constant after any sort of horrific tragedy. It becomes grist in the mill for people to push their pre-existing agendas. For some it has been a push for greater gun control. For others it has been a push for greater funding and understanding of mental health. For others, you blame media attention. Personally, I view these events as "side-effects" of our society. And we're basically loathe to examine it too deeply as it can call into question some deeply held parts of American culture.

avar 11y ago
As the linked article covers this is not exclusive to America, that's probably one correlation we can genuinely throw out.
- manachar 11y ago
  To be fair, it does happen more often in America, which may provide some information to see the underlying conditions that lead to the kind of desperate isolation seen in these manifestos.
sliverstorm 11y ago
"Reduce media attention to criminals" seems like an odd pre-existing personal agenda. What ulterior motive could that possibly correspond to?
- manachar 11y ago
  Blaming media has gotten increasingly popular for a variety of societal ills. It's just a favorite boogeyman to go after. Much like people who blame violent video games or 4chan. The ulterior motive is to use the situation to disparage something they already don't like.
  - jjoonathan 11y ago
    Yes, I'm sure people blame the media because they perceive it as popular and not because killers leave manifestos saying they do it because of the attention it will bring them. >‘I have noticed,’ it says, ‘that so many people like him are all alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. A man who was known by no one is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems the more people you kill, the more you’re in the limelight.’ -TFA
    - manachar 11y ago
      It's not the media that causes the individual to crave the media attention or infamy. Does our media contribute? Absolutely. But they are the way they are because of the way we are. Or at least the way the consumers of media are.

anigbrowl 11y ago

Media attention may well be the biggest motivator for such actions, but once someone gives in to their murderous impulses guns make it very easy to kill a lot of people, simply by being highly optimized. You can quickly kill more people with a bomb, but they're relatively hard to manufacture and deploy; you can very easily kill someone with a knife or any number of other close-quarters weapons, but it's not reliable or efficient to do so. Thus, while soldiers deployed in combat usually have a knife and may well have hand grenades or other explosives, firearms are the primary weapons by a mile. I'm not in favor of gun confiscation (and don't plan on getting into any arguments on gun policy today) but it would be absurd to ignore the technological-economic impact of guns on the production of murder. Suggesting that media eschew reporting the news, even to the point of sensationalizing it, is irrational given both what we know about human behavior and the constitutional safeguards against censorship in the US. To be honest, I think people who blame the media are simply demonstrating their own strong preference for social proof and then projecting that motivation onto murderous individuals. It is very likely a significant factor but I don't think we have anywhere near enough data to conclude that it is a primary motivator.

hga 11y ago
Although it's worth pointing out that some of the worst US mass murders were arsons, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_Plaza_Hotel_arson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_Plaza_Hotel_arson and there's one I'm having difficultly finding that was almost as bad set in the entrance of a NYC nightclub. That people in the US choose guns vs. fire is I'm sure cultural, including fire safety being part of our culture, i.e. the "payoff" will seldom be great.