3 ms·

Secret surveillance of ‘suspicious’ blacks in one of DC's poshest neighborhoods

14 points by kanamekun 11y ago

msie 11y ago
Comments concentrated by location == bad. See also: college, high-school chat apps.
eli 11y ago
I'm constantly surprised by the casual racism displayed on DC's ubiquitous neighborhood mailing lists and discussion forums. But at this point maybe that says more about me than my neighbors :/ Beyond the terrible impact of racism itself, I think racially profiling people with dark skin is unlikely to address rising crime in a city that is majority black.
- thehoff 11y ago
  I always thought of DC as such a multi-racial/ethnic town and that it would be much more welcoming-to-all than it is.
  - eli 11y ago
    I still think it's a good city and that the vast majority of residents are good people... but yeah, there are definitely (still) racial issues beneath the surface.
    - thehoff 11y ago
      Oh I didn't mean that it isn't. It's a great city but I've been caught off balance with the sometimes blatant racism.
- hackuser 11y ago
  > I'm constantly surprised by the casual racism displayed on DC's ubiquitous neighborhood mailing lists and discussion forums. But at this point maybe that says more about me than my neighbors :/ A general point that might apply to your situation (which I know nothing about): Speaking up can make a big difference. Human beings follow and get their ideas from the herd; if they see everyone making racists comments, they think it's the way to do things and join in. If they don't like it and see nobody else objecting (like you do), they assume they are alone and don't speak up. It's a self-reinforcing system. If someone speaks up - respectfully and genuinely - then they greatly encourage others who feel the same and also they disrupt the idea that everyone shares these ideas; they show that there is an alternative. Even if the speaker gets some heat and little support at first, IME things often turn around (as long as they keep their cool). Many people just follow the herd without much thought; few are naturally hateful. At worst, the others who feel like you do won't feel as depressed about the state of humanity.
matthewmcg 11y ago
One of the shopkeepers quoted in the article: "Shoplifting has always been an issue and as long as there’s stores, lower-income people are going to have a higher tendency to steal." Beyond the obvious offense of profiling, the danger of relying on stereotypes is that they lead you to be suspicious of the wrong persons. According to a large CDC study[1]: "Shoplifting occurred across all sociodemographic strata. However, it was more common among those with higher education and income, suggesting that financial considerations are unlikely to be the main motivator for shoplifting in most cases. It was also more common among Native Americans and non-Hispanic whites, possibly indicating a racial/cultural dimension not previously documented." [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104590/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104590/
- hackuser 11y ago
  There are two more problems: 1) Most importantly, responsibility and justice must be on an individual level: An individual has absolutely no responsibility for the actions of others who happen share some characteristics with them. If I'm short, I'm not responsible for what other short people do and shouldn't suffer any consequences from it. 2) Profiling leads to many false-positive errors. Consider that even the disparity is so large that 1% of group A and only 0.1% of group B is criminal: * If your customers are 99% group B, you will see ~10 times as many group B criminals as group A. * If you suspect everyone in group A, you'll be wrong and harassing innocent people 99% of the time. The real problem, returning to my first point, is objectifying people: Seeing them as merely threats to your store - like a 2-dimensional character in an action movie - instead of real people with their own lives, feelings and interests. It's much easier to do with people you are unfamiliar with, such as other cultures, races, economic classes, etc.

14 points by kanamekun 11y ago

msie 11y ago

Comments concentrated by location == bad. See also: college, high-school chat apps.

eli 11y ago

I'm constantly surprised by the casual racism displayed on DC's ubiquitous neighborhood mailing lists and discussion forums. But at this point maybe that says more about me than my neighbors :/ Beyond the terrible impact of racism itself, I think racially profiling people with dark skin is unlikely to address rising crime in a city that is majority black.

thehoff 11y ago
I always thought of DC as such a multi-racial/ethnic town and that it would be much more welcoming-to-all than it is.
- eli 11y ago
  I still think it's a good city and that the vast majority of residents are good people... but yeah, there are definitely (still) racial issues beneath the surface.
  - thehoff 11y ago
    Oh I didn't mean that it isn't. It's a great city but I've been caught off balance with the sometimes blatant racism.
hackuser 11y ago
> I'm constantly surprised by the casual racism displayed on DC's ubiquitous neighborhood mailing lists and discussion forums. But at this point maybe that says more about me than my neighbors :/ A general point that might apply to your situation (which I know nothing about): Speaking up can make a big difference. Human beings follow and get their ideas from the herd; if they see everyone making racists comments, they think it's the way to do things and join in. If they don't like it and see nobody else objecting (like you do), they assume they are alone and don't speak up. It's a self-reinforcing system. If someone speaks up - respectfully and genuinely - then they greatly encourage others who feel the same and also they disrupt the idea that everyone shares these ideas; they show that there is an alternative. Even if the speaker gets some heat and little support at first, IME things often turn around (as long as they keep their cool). Many people just follow the herd without much thought; few are naturally hateful. At worst, the others who feel like you do won't feel as depressed about the state of humanity.

matthewmcg 11y ago

One of the shopkeepers quoted in the article: "Shoplifting has always been an issue and as long as there’s stores, lower-income people are going to have a higher tendency to steal." Beyond the obvious offense of profiling, the danger of relying on stereotypes is that they lead you to be suspicious of the wrong persons. According to a large CDC study[1]: "Shoplifting occurred across all sociodemographic strata. However, it was more common among those with higher education and income, suggesting that financial considerations are unlikely to be the main motivator for shoplifting in most cases. It was also more common among Native Americans and non-Hispanic whites, possibly indicating a racial/cultural dimension not previously documented." [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104590/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104590/

hackuser 11y ago
There are two more problems: 1) Most importantly, responsibility and justice must be on an individual level: An individual has absolutely no responsibility for the actions of others who happen share some characteristics with them. If I'm short, I'm not responsible for what other short people do and shouldn't suffer any consequences from it. 2) Profiling leads to many false-positive errors. Consider that even the disparity is so large that 1% of group A and only 0.1% of group B is criminal: * If your customers are 99% group B, you will see ~10 times as many group B criminals as group A. * If you suspect everyone in group A, you'll be wrong and harassing innocent people 99% of the time. The real problem, returning to my first point, is objectifying people: Seeing them as merely threats to your store - like a 2-dimensional character in an action movie - instead of real people with their own lives, feelings and interests. It's much easier to do with people you are unfamiliar with, such as other cultures, races, economic classes, etc.