4 ms·

Why not just simplify it down to MacArthur Fellows are smart, and smart people are smart enough to solve the rather simple problem of not wasting a large windfa

by hugh4 11y ago

Why not just simplify it down to MacArthur Fellows are smart, and smart people are smart enough to solve the rather simple problem of not wasting a large windfall?

mattdw 11y ago
Because poor people are not stupid. They're often actually pretty damn rational within their constraints. Smarts alone does not equip one to handle a windfall.
- notjack 11y ago
  This is a very crucial point. The so called "stupid" financial behavior of people in (first world) poverty is anything but, it's a series of carefully calculated and measured responses to extreme inflexibility. Almost all means of establishing long term financial stability involve either a) put away some money now, wait for some time, then receive more money or b) risk losing some money for the chance to gain more money in a way that averages to a net positive over time. Neither of these are possible when you do not have flexibility, you can't afford to put away money when doing so means not eating for a week, and you can't afford to risk money for more money when coming out on the losing end of that deal means becoming homeless. You have to have a completely different approach to managing money when in poverty, and it sticks with you mentally even after escaping to a more stable situation.
  - teddyh 11y ago
    Yes, that was exactly my point.
- hugh4 11y ago
  If they're smart, why haven't they found a way out of poverty yet? I mean, maybe there's some weird outlying cases, but for the most part poverty is caused by shitty decisions. Stupid people make bad decisions and wind up poor.
  - kolinko 11y ago
    This is not the case, you could really read up more about that. Here's a comic that explains some of the issues: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate Some other bits and pieces: - If earning a lot was just a matter of intelligence, you'd have as many people earning $100k coming from ghettos, as from rich neighbourhoods. Because intelligence isn't correlated to the social status of your parents. - Intelligence isn't knowledge. If you're walking on a path riddled with deadly hidden traps, your intelligence will not help you much. And if you're in a race (and career is a race against other people, and against time), even if you're bright, you'll be left in the dust by people who might not be as smart, but were better prepared by their parents and community. Those are not the "outlying cases" as you call them. The outlying cases are when someone manages to use his/her intelligence to get over all those challenges and switch into a different social class. A cool book called "Outliers" comes to my mind now. It's one of the classics and I highly recommend it: http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017930 http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwel...
    - thaumasiotes 11y ago
      > intelligence isn't correlated to the social status of your parents Where did you get this idea? It's not true at all.
    - wolfgke 11y ago
      The thing that I still understand in the comic is why the hell poor people find it ethically acceptable to produce children when the children will later have such problems in life. If I were a poor child, I'd be really furious on my parents that they didn't use condoms (or another method of contraception) to prevent the suffer that I'd be in from the start.
      - rmxt 11y ago
        The human mind and human decision making do not work in the way that you're suggesting, especially when it comes to reproduction. If you were a poor child, you might not even have been taught or have ever learned the self-awareness necessary to be angry at your parents for such a decision. Plus, I find it hard to believe that you'd have the exact same take on poverty and birth rates were you actually poor, and not simply hypothesizing about what it's like to be poor.
kolinko 11y ago
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1570/ https://xkcd.com/1570/
puranjay 11y ago
Because no smart person in the history of the world has ever gone broke from spending too much, right?
dang 11y ago
We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10384732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10384732 and marked it off-topic.
- hugh4 11y ago
  Was it any less on-topic than the comment it replied to, or was it just a less fashionable opinion?
  - dang 11y ago
    Probably a little (because it was more glib) but it's the subthread that went off the rails. I apologize for saying "this comment" when I meant "this subthread".

by hugh4 11y ago

Why not just simplify it down to MacArthur Fellows are smart, and smart people are smart enough to solve the rather simple problem of not wasting a large windfall?

mattdw 11y ago

Because poor people are not stupid. They're often actually pretty damn rational within their constraints. Smarts alone does not equip one to handle a windfall.

notjack 11y ago
This is a very crucial point. The so called "stupid" financial behavior of people in (first world) poverty is anything but, it's a series of carefully calculated and measured responses to extreme inflexibility. Almost all means of establishing long term financial stability involve either a) put away some money now, wait for some time, then receive more money or b) risk losing some money for the chance to gain more money in a way that averages to a net positive over time. Neither of these are possible when you do not have flexibility, you can't afford to put away money when doing so means not eating for a week, and you can't afford to risk money for more money when coming out on the losing end of that deal means becoming homeless. You have to have a completely different approach to managing money when in poverty, and it sticks with you mentally even after escaping to a more stable situation.
- teddyh 11y ago
  Yes, that was exactly my point.
hugh4 11y ago
If they're smart, why haven't they found a way out of poverty yet? I mean, maybe there's some weird outlying cases, but for the most part poverty is caused by shitty decisions. Stupid people make bad decisions and wind up poor.
- kolinko 11y ago
  This is not the case, you could really read up more about that. Here's a comic that explains some of the issues: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate Some other bits and pieces: - If earning a lot was just a matter of intelligence, you'd have as many people earning $100k coming from ghettos, as from rich neighbourhoods. Because intelligence isn't correlated to the social status of your parents. - Intelligence isn't knowledge. If you're walking on a path riddled with deadly hidden traps, your intelligence will not help you much. And if you're in a race (and career is a race against other people, and against time), even if you're bright, you'll be left in the dust by people who might not be as smart, but were better prepared by their parents and community. Those are not the "outlying cases" as you call them. The outlying cases are when someone manages to use his/her intelligence to get over all those challenges and switch into a different social class. A cool book called "Outliers" comes to my mind now. It's one of the classics and I highly recommend it: http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017930 http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwel...
  - thaumasiotes 11y ago
    > intelligence isn't correlated to the social status of your parents Where did you get this idea? It's not true at all.
  - wolfgke 11y ago
    The thing that I still understand in the comic is why the hell poor people find it ethically acceptable to produce children when the children will later have such problems in life. If I were a poor child, I'd be really furious on my parents that they didn't use condoms (or another method of contraception) to prevent the suffer that I'd be in from the start.
    - rmxt 11y ago
      The human mind and human decision making do not work in the way that you're suggesting, especially when it comes to reproduction. If you were a poor child, you might not even have been taught or have ever learned the self-awareness necessary to be angry at your parents for such a decision. Plus, I find it hard to believe that you'd have the exact same take on poverty and birth rates were you actually poor, and not simply hypothesizing about what it's like to be poor.

kolinko 11y ago

Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1570/ https://xkcd.com/1570/

puranjay 11y ago

Because no smart person in the history of the world has ever gone broke from spending too much, right?

dang 11y ago

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10384732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10384732 and marked it off-topic.

hugh4 11y ago
Was it any less on-topic than the comment it replied to, or was it just a less fashionable opinion?
- dang 11y ago
  Probably a little (because it was more glib) but it's the subthread that went off the rails. I apologize for saying "this comment" when I meant "this subthread".