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If capital punishment is used, there's never a chance that someone spuriously found guilty might be able to be vindicated and get some semblance of their life b

If capital punishment is used, there's never a chance that someone spuriously found guilty might be able to be vindicated and get some semblance of their life back. It's better that 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man hang. Or at least that 10 guilty men stay in jail, no? If it was possible to know with 100% certainty that every criminal who will be put to death was really guilty, then sure I'd be all for capital punishment. But until we perfect a mind reading machine, I'll stay on the "anti" side of the argument. And won't that be a wonderful world to live in by the way, once the government can accurately read our thoughts. :)

anamax 17y ago
> If it was possible to know with 100% certainty that every criminal who will be put to death was really guilty, then sure I'd be all for capital punishment. But until we perfect a mind reading machine, I'll stay on the "anti" side of the argument. Prisons are dangerous places. Putting someone in one often results in their death. (It always does for "life without parole" sentences.) So, if it's really the death of innocents that bothers you, you can't support imprisonment either. In fact, if you're actually innocent, you probably want to get sentenced to death because that's the best way to get reasonable review. If you're innocent, you're more likely to die in the prison infirmary than you are in the death chamber.
- delackner 17y ago
  Prison is not by definition dangerous. There are plenty of societies that find a dangerous prison to be unacceptable. And then there are others that seem to take grim pleasure in the idea that someone in Prison might be harmed.
  - anamax 17y ago
    > Prison is not by definition dangerous. The prisons that you're willing to put people in are dangerous. You argued "innocents may die". Do you really want to amend that to "it's bad if innocents will necessarily die but okay if they die in practice so long as I can convince myself that they needn't die in theory"?
    - easp 17y ago
      Prisons are indeed dangerous, but it is a matter of degree. You seem to be asserting that there is little practical difference between a life sentence and a death sentence in terms of opportunities to right an unjust conviction. Can you support that with evidence? Should continue executing people who might be innocent until we can suitable reform the prison system? One of the reasons prisons aredangerous places is the that socity is complicit with rapists and other sociopaths, giving them tacit approval to brutalize other prisoners.
      - anamax 17y ago
        > You seem to be asserting that there is little practical difference between a life sentence and a death sentence in terms of opportunities to right an unjust conviction. Can you support that with evidence? Actually, I asserted that there is a difference, namely that if you're sentenced to death, lots of money will be spent after conviction on your case, both govt money and pro-bono. (The former is statutory.) If you're get a sentence of life without parole, there's no govt money and typically no private money either. Do you really want to argue that point? Folks on death row are not subject to violence from other inmates, so their only real risk is execution. As to why prisons are violent, it doesn't actually matter. You're willing to use them, knowing that they're deadly.
- jonny_noog 17y ago
  Sorry for the late reply. Didn't notice your response. Well yes, I don't really support prison either. But to me as bad as prison is, it's still the lesser of two evils. I feel that society needs to make up its mind whether prison is punishment or rehabilitation. Currently things seem quite grey on this point. Perhaps certain institutions could be defined more clearly either as rehabilitation institutions or punishment institutions, and criminals could be sent to one or the other based on their history or something. In any case, putting myself in the position of being someone falsely accused of say, murder. Would I be happy to be going to jail with the possibility of being raped or killed myself? Fuck no. But would the idea of being on death row with the ostensible possibility of a "reasonable review" make me feel better? I guess that's one of those things that's hard to judge in the hypothetical, but from this vantage point, I'd have to say no. If you're innocent, you're more likely to die in the prison infirmary than you are in the death chamber. I honestly wouldn't be surprised but do you actually have citations for this? But overall I guess I don't really get what your actual argument is here? Death sentence better than life sentence because prison is so dangerous? Is that it?

anamax 17y ago

> If it was possible to know with 100% certainty that every criminal who will be put to death was really guilty, then sure I'd be all for capital punishment. But until we perfect a mind reading machine, I'll stay on the "anti" side of the argument. Prisons are dangerous places. Putting someone in one often results in their death. (It always does for "life without parole" sentences.) So, if it's really the death of innocents that bothers you, you can't support imprisonment either. In fact, if you're actually innocent, you probably want to get sentenced to death because that's the best way to get reasonable review. If you're innocent, you're more likely to die in the prison infirmary than you are in the death chamber.

delackner 17y ago
Prison is not by definition dangerous. There are plenty of societies that find a dangerous prison to be unacceptable. And then there are others that seem to take grim pleasure in the idea that someone in Prison might be harmed.
- anamax 17y ago
  > Prison is not by definition dangerous. The prisons that you're willing to put people in are dangerous. You argued "innocents may die". Do you really want to amend that to "it's bad if innocents will necessarily die but okay if they die in practice so long as I can convince myself that they needn't die in theory"?
  - easp 17y ago
    Prisons are indeed dangerous, but it is a matter of degree. You seem to be asserting that there is little practical difference between a life sentence and a death sentence in terms of opportunities to right an unjust conviction. Can you support that with evidence? Should continue executing people who might be innocent until we can suitable reform the prison system? One of the reasons prisons aredangerous places is the that socity is complicit with rapists and other sociopaths, giving them tacit approval to brutalize other prisoners.
    - anamax 17y ago
      > You seem to be asserting that there is little practical difference between a life sentence and a death sentence in terms of opportunities to right an unjust conviction. Can you support that with evidence? Actually, I asserted that there is a difference, namely that if you're sentenced to death, lots of money will be spent after conviction on your case, both govt money and pro-bono. (The former is statutory.) If you're get a sentence of life without parole, there's no govt money and typically no private money either. Do you really want to argue that point? Folks on death row are not subject to violence from other inmates, so their only real risk is execution. As to why prisons are violent, it doesn't actually matter. You're willing to use them, knowing that they're deadly.
jonny_noog 17y ago
Sorry for the late reply. Didn't notice your response. Well yes, I don't really support prison either. But to me as bad as prison is, it's still the lesser of two evils. I feel that society needs to make up its mind whether prison is punishment or rehabilitation. Currently things seem quite grey on this point. Perhaps certain institutions could be defined more clearly either as rehabilitation institutions or punishment institutions, and criminals could be sent to one or the other based on their history or something. In any case, putting myself in the position of being someone falsely accused of say, murder. Would I be happy to be going to jail with the possibility of being raped or killed myself? Fuck no. But would the idea of being on death row with the ostensible possibility of a "reasonable review" make me feel better? I guess that's one of those things that's hard to judge in the hypothetical, but from this vantage point, I'd have to say no. If you're innocent, you're more likely to die in the prison infirmary than you are in the death chamber. I honestly wouldn't be surprised but do you actually have citations for this? But overall I guess I don't really get what your actual argument is here? Death sentence better than life sentence because prison is so dangerous? Is that it?