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I agree with everything you just said - Just pointing out coping IP may be bad in the short term ( Tesla doesn't make as much money as they excepted ) - but in

by 1971genocide 11y ago

I agree with everything you just said - Just pointing out coping IP may be bad in the short term ( Tesla doesn't make as much money as they excepted ) - but in the long term its good for humanity.

rebootthesystem 11y ago
In general terms, no, you are wrong. Why? The "R" in "R&D" is the expensive part. Very expensive. Ridiculously expensive in some segments (pharmaceuticals). Doing the "D" part once someone paid for the "R" part is easy and cheap. That's what stealing IP is about. If "R" was easy and inexpensive everyone would do it. Not so. The problem with saying "Oh, it's OK, China will make it better for humanity in the long run" is that killing-off companies that are engaged in heavy "R" creates a situation where all you have in the market is crap or you effectively freeze "R&D" for decades until the equation makes sense again or someone is stupid enough or rich enough to throw money at a problem. Patents and IP protection make a lot of sense when used for real inventions, real "improvements in the art". It is when they are used by trolls who make nothing, contribute nothing to society and get in the way of progress that patents turn evil. Stealing legitimate IP is a terrible thing. The only people who don't see it that way are those who have never devoted time, treasure and effort to find a solution for a difficult problem. That is when, in no uncertain terms, you absolutely get it. In my case, I devoted ten years in a constant effort to develop a technology. It was extremely difficult work. I funded all of it and it cost a bundle. At the end of the process anyone could have just taken the "D" part and gone with it with very little effort in relative terms. Go through something half as intensive as that and you'll understand where I and others are coming from.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  China and India have been infringing on US patents for 4 decades now and nothing has happened yet.
  - rebootthesystem 11y ago
    Citation please.
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      Of what that China is on the priority watch list of the USTR for IPR violations? https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/USTR%202014%20Special%20301%20Report%20to%20Congress%20FINAL.pdf https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/USTR%202014%20Special%2... Or that the US economy hasn't collapsed? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...
      - rebootthesystem 11y ago
        You are changing the topic. You said that patent infringement over decades has had no effects. Quoting: "China and India have been infringing on US patents for 4 decades now and nothing has happened yet." I just want to know how you came to that conclusion. The problem with your atatement is that it requires access to data that may not be public. If I had not had IP stolen by a Chinese company I would not have some of the insights I gained during that experience. Mine isn't the only company that has had these kinds of issues. During my ordeal I got to meet other business owners affected by Chinese IP theft. Why? Because we got the State Department involved and that was the conduit through which I met others. Unless you've had access at that level it would be hard for you to understand the subject. In our case the IP theft probably cost us $30 million dollars in R&D, over a hundred million dollars in lost sales and hundreds of very high paying jobs. No, IP theft is a very serious problem.

I agree with everything you just said - Just pointing out coping IP may be bad in the short term ( Tesla doesn't make as much money as they excepted ) - but in the long term its good for humanity.

rebootthesystem 11y ago

In general terms, no, you are wrong. Why? The "R" in "R&D" is the expensive part. Very expensive. Ridiculously expensive in some segments (pharmaceuticals). Doing the "D" part once someone paid for the "R" part is easy and cheap. That's what stealing IP is about. If "R" was easy and inexpensive everyone would do it. Not so. The problem with saying "Oh, it's OK, China will make it better for humanity in the long run" is that killing-off companies that are engaged in heavy "R" creates a situation where all you have in the market is crap or you effectively freeze "R&D" for decades until the equation makes sense again or someone is stupid enough or rich enough to throw money at a problem. Patents and IP protection make a lot of sense when used for real inventions, real "improvements in the art". It is when they are used by trolls who make nothing, contribute nothing to society and get in the way of progress that patents turn evil. Stealing legitimate IP is a terrible thing. The only people who don't see it that way are those who have never devoted time, treasure and effort to find a solution for a difficult problem. That is when, in no uncertain terms, you absolutely get it. In my case, I devoted ten years in a constant effort to develop a technology. It was extremely difficult work. I funded all of it and it cost a bundle. At the end of the process anyone could have just taken the "D" part and gone with it with very little effort in relative terms. Go through something half as intensive as that and you'll understand where I and others are coming from.

dogma1138 11y ago
China and India have been infringing on US patents for 4 decades now and nothing has happened yet.
- rebootthesystem 11y ago
  Citation please.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Of what that China is on the priority watch list of the USTR for IPR violations? https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/USTR%202014%20Special%20301%20Report%20to%20Congress%20FINAL.pdf https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/USTR%202014%20Special%2... Or that the US economy hasn't collapsed? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...
    - rebootthesystem 11y ago
      You are changing the topic. You said that patent infringement over decades has had no effects. Quoting: "China and India have been infringing on US patents for 4 decades now and nothing has happened yet." I just want to know how you came to that conclusion. The problem with your atatement is that it requires access to data that may not be public. If I had not had IP stolen by a Chinese company I would not have some of the insights I gained during that experience. Mine isn't the only company that has had these kinds of issues. During my ordeal I got to meet other business owners affected by Chinese IP theft. Why? Because we got the State Department involved and that was the conduit through which I met others. Unless you've had access at that level it would be hard for you to understand the subject. In our case the IP theft probably cost us $30 million dollars in R&D, over a hundred million dollars in lost sales and hundreds of very high paying jobs. No, IP theft is a very serious problem.