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You live in a much more Java-centric world than I do. Your world seems similar to the one I inhabited for well over a decade (I wrote Java code professionally f

by curun1r 11y ago

You live in a much more Java-centric world than I do. Your world seems similar to the one I inhabited for well over a decade (I wrote Java code professionally from 1997-2012), but with the rise of microservices, I'm seeing almost no interest in creating any new Java code. The JVM isn't going away...there's plenty of Scala and even some Clojure. But there's also a move towards newer platforms like Node and Go. And there's even been a rediscovery of platforms like Ruby and Python when the performance penalty doesn't come into play. Docker enables everything to play nicely together. Capsule seems to double down on the old, monoculture way of developing. For people that want to do that, I'm sure your solution is an excellent product. But my own perspective, which may be skewed by being in the bay area, is that those people are the minority, not the majority.

pron 11y ago
> there's plenty of Scala and even some Clojure. But there's also a move towards newer platforms like Node and Go. And there's even been a rediscovery of platforms like Ruby and Python when the performance penalty doesn't come into play. I won't say what you're saying isn't real, but it is happening on a completely different scale than the size of the Java ecosystem. Even on the JVM, what you see as "plenty of Scala" doesn't even amount to 5% -- not that it matters, but it's just an example of why I think your view is skewed. The size of the Go ecosystem is hardly 1% of that of the JVM (rough estimate), and while Node.js/Python are "a thing" (and are the only languages/platforms of those you mentioned that are used to a substantial amount outside of startups), they are still tiny compared to the use of the JVM. Even in Silicon Valley (which is in itself a very small portion of the software world), the large "webby" application companies (with the notable exception of Facebook) are JVM shops: Amazon, Google, eBay, Twitter, Netflix are either entirely JVM or predominantly JVM, and even Facebook is making growing use of the Java. Most of the shifts you're seeing is among non-JVM technologies. It's mostly Pythonists that switch to Go and Rubyists that switch to Elixir/Node.js, etc.. The JVM was never the biggest player in the "fast application development" arena -- at the beginning there was VB, and then Perl, and then Python/Ruby and so forth. I see no signs that there is greater movement away from the JVM -- mostly among those who realize they're better served by the "fast dev" platforms even at the cost of performance -- than towards it -- by those realizing they need the best the industry can offer in terms of performance/monitorability/tooling even at the cost of slower development.
jacques_chester 11y ago
> I'm seeing almost no interest in creating any new Java code. I work at a firm where we have dozens of greenfield Spring Boot projects going on. And if we perform the stats on our public cloud, Java dominates the workload.

by curun1r 11y ago

pron 11y ago

> there's plenty of Scala and even some Clojure. But there's also a move towards newer platforms like Node and Go. And there's even been a rediscovery of platforms like Ruby and Python when the performance penalty doesn't come into play. I won't say what you're saying isn't real, but it is happening on a completely different scale than the size of the Java ecosystem. Even on the JVM, what you see as "plenty of Scala" doesn't even amount to 5% -- not that it matters, but it's just an example of why I think your view is skewed. The size of the Go ecosystem is hardly 1% of that of the JVM (rough estimate), and while Node.js/Python are "a thing" (and are the only languages/platforms of those you mentioned that are used to a substantial amount outside of startups), they are still tiny compared to the use of the JVM. Even in Silicon Valley (which is in itself a very small portion of the software world), the large "webby" application companies (with the notable exception of Facebook) are JVM shops: Amazon, Google, eBay, Twitter, Netflix are either entirely JVM or predominantly JVM, and even Facebook is making growing use of the Java. Most of the shifts you're seeing is among non-JVM technologies. It's mostly Pythonists that switch to Go and Rubyists that switch to Elixir/Node.js, etc.. The JVM was never the biggest player in the "fast application development" arena -- at the beginning there was VB, and then Perl, and then Python/Ruby and so forth. I see no signs that there is greater movement away from the JVM -- mostly among those who realize they're better served by the "fast dev" platforms even at the cost of performance -- than towards it -- by those realizing they need the best the industry can offer in terms of performance/monitorability/tooling even at the cost of slower development.

jacques_chester 11y ago

> I'm seeing almost no interest in creating any new Java code. I work at a firm where we have dozens of greenfield Spring Boot projects going on. And if we perform the stats on our public cloud, Java dominates the workload.