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I really find it hard to feel sympathetic about rich Americans (only applies to income of 100k+) paying no more taxes than if they lived in America (live in a c

I really find it hard to feel sympathetic about rich Americans (only applies to income of 100k+) paying no more taxes than if they lived in America (live in a country with higher income tax, pay US nothing, country with lower tax, pay US the difference.) This seems hardly worth 'denouncing' American citizenship. Can you explain? I feel like threads like these really illustrate the difference between someone on HN and the average person.

gambiting 11y ago
It's not about America per se - I would feel the same way about any country. I live and work in UK while being a Polish citizen. If Poland now asked me to pay income tax in Poland based off my income in UK, I would be very very upset - I already pay income tax in the UK, so paying it twice sounds absolutely ridiculous. On the most basic level - Poland has absolutely no "right" to any of that money. I would denounce my Polish citizenship over this if that was the case. And US feels like they do have the right to the money of their citizens, even if they made it abroad. Every single person I spoke to about this said the exact same thing - the US tax system is stupid, and it's the example of US behaving like it owns the world and its own citizens. Just because it only targets "rich" people doesn't make it any less stupid.
- Amezarak 11y ago
  > I already pay income tax in the UK, so paying it twice sounds absolutely ridiculous. You aren't paying twice. That's the point. Assume the US has a 30% tax rate in your bracket. Poland has a 35% rate for that same bracket. Then as an American expat, you would pay 35% in taxes. If Poland had a 25% rate, you'd pay 30% (25 + 5) in taxes. You aren't paying 65% of your income in taxes. You aren't paying twice. > On the most basic level - Poland has absolutely no "right" to any of that money. Then Poland has the right to say you are no longer a Polish citizen that can take advantage of Polish embassies or move back to Poland at any time as a full citizen. It seems perfectly sensible to me.
  - nikdaheratik 11y ago
    Except that's not what the law actually states. If you make over a certain threshold you have to pay income tax on it to the U.S. even if the income is from working in an overseas company, paid in a different currency, and stored in a bank in that country and you don't spend even a single minute of your time in the U.S. for that year. It's not sensible if none of your other coworkers have to worry about this and they're all foreign citizens as well. It's a stupid tax policy that is basically a shakedown.
  - gambiting 11y ago
    So basically "you will always pay us a bit of your income,no matter where that income comes from, or you are no longer our citizen"? That's a bit of a mob mentality, and in general, not how countries work. You don't need to pay taxes to be a citizen and enjoy protection of the law, otherwise what would we do with people who really don't earn anything? Kick them out? I'm perfectly happy to pay income tax on the money made in Poland. But I see no reason to pay income tax on the money made elsewhere. And yeah, I'm not totally sure about your example. I'm quite certain that I would pay 30% of my income in Poland, and then US would want a further 30% of the remaining amount, IRS would not care that I have already paid income tax in Poland.

gambiting 11y ago

It's not about America per se - I would feel the same way about any country. I live and work in UK while being a Polish citizen. If Poland now asked me to pay income tax in Poland based off my income in UK, I would be very very upset - I already pay income tax in the UK, so paying it twice sounds absolutely ridiculous. On the most basic level - Poland has absolutely no "right" to any of that money. I would denounce my Polish citizenship over this if that was the case. And US feels like they do have the right to the money of their citizens, even if they made it abroad. Every single person I spoke to about this said the exact same thing - the US tax system is stupid, and it's the example of US behaving like it owns the world and its own citizens. Just because it only targets "rich" people doesn't make it any less stupid.

Amezarak 11y ago
> I already pay income tax in the UK, so paying it twice sounds absolutely ridiculous. You aren't paying twice. That's the point. Assume the US has a 30% tax rate in your bracket. Poland has a 35% rate for that same bracket. Then as an American expat, you would pay 35% in taxes. If Poland had a 25% rate, you'd pay 30% (25 + 5) in taxes. You aren't paying 65% of your income in taxes. You aren't paying twice. > On the most basic level - Poland has absolutely no "right" to any of that money. Then Poland has the right to say you are no longer a Polish citizen that can take advantage of Polish embassies or move back to Poland at any time as a full citizen. It seems perfectly sensible to me.
- nikdaheratik 11y ago
  Except that's not what the law actually states. If you make over a certain threshold you have to pay income tax on it to the U.S. even if the income is from working in an overseas company, paid in a different currency, and stored in a bank in that country and you don't spend even a single minute of your time in the U.S. for that year. It's not sensible if none of your other coworkers have to worry about this and they're all foreign citizens as well. It's a stupid tax policy that is basically a shakedown.
- gambiting 11y ago
  So basically "you will always pay us a bit of your income,no matter where that income comes from, or you are no longer our citizen"? That's a bit of a mob mentality, and in general, not how countries work. You don't need to pay taxes to be a citizen and enjoy protection of the law, otherwise what would we do with people who really don't earn anything? Kick them out? I'm perfectly happy to pay income tax on the money made in Poland. But I see no reason to pay income tax on the money made elsewhere. And yeah, I'm not totally sure about your example. I'm quite certain that I would pay 30% of my income in Poland, and then US would want a further 30% of the remaining amount, IRS would not care that I have already paid income tax in Poland.