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Most arts require, to an extent, some prior knowledge. It is not so much that there are distinctions but that previous study and understanding is required to ma

by crdb 11y ago

Most arts require, to an extent, some prior knowledge. It is not so much that there are distinctions but that previous study and understanding is required to make the most of any art (including "pop" or "lowbrow"). A guest in my house this week is a big fan of very simple techno. I'm obsessively listening to and playing through Franck's Prelude, Chorale and Fugue after hearing Stephen Hough play parts of it at a masterclass a month ago which gave me a new understanding of and hunger for the piece. I do so with headphones because I know the sound bothers my guest. What little techno I have heard from his computer bothers ME a little because of the absolute paucity of content (I say this as someone who brought a Daft Punk track to an analysis class as a joke which turned into a 1h30 discussion on the only three elements we were able to isolate). My taste has evolved from over 25 years of investing in understanding (classical) music, probably well over the 10,000 hours mark. He hasn't invested the hours (decades) so he doesn't appreciate the art, much or at all. And that's fine - he appreciates other things in life, in which he has invested time, and in which I understand very little. The content of the Franck is complex and high dimensional (if that makes sense) and requires that previous body of knowledge and experience to appreciate; in fact, as someone who has never played on an organ, I am probably lacking a fair amount of experience to make the most of Franck. With that body of knowledge, you are able to judge and appreciate the piece according to objective standards. Without, you get the second graders and the tasting meal (and they did like the wagyu!). Untrained listeners will react to some of the harmonies. Take the famous hand jump chords [1]. A "man in the street" might appreciate the familiar chord progression. A pianist will react immediately to the genius of that hand jump that forces you to isolate the "melody" (and perhaps shaping the arpeggiated chord that ends up "naturally" leading to it) due to the physics of getting to that last note. I took a friend to that masterclass and he was as bored as I was fascinated. From A Mathematician's Apology: "Mr. J. M. Lomas put this point more picturesquely when we were passing the Nelson column in Trafalgar Square. If I had a statue on a column in London, would I prefer the column to be so high that the statue was invisible, or low enough for the features to be recognizable? I would choose the first alternative, Dr. Snow, presumably, the second." [2] That being said I think there is value in "man on the street" reviews. As such a man in the case of many fields, I would like to know how others reacted as a proxy for my own reaction. There is a place for Yelp, and for Michelin. One is wealthier for reading both. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq67nsDLucI&t=5m32s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq67nsDLucI&t=5m32s [2] http://www.amazon.com/Mathematicians-Apology-Canto-Classics/dp/110760463X/ http://www.amazon.com/Mathematicians-Apology-Canto-Classics/...

PhasmaFelis 11y ago
> (I say this as someone who brought a Daft Punk track to an analysis class as a joke which turned into a 1h30 discussion on the only three elements we were able to isolate). I'm curious what "elements" means in the context.
- crdb 11y ago
  It's been a long time and I took a break from music until I could actually enjoy it again. I vaguely remember the track being (I think) "one more time" and so there was the voice/instrumental motif accompanying the rather limited lyrics, the motif that opens the song fading in and continues as the background, maybe the drum motif in the background, and the number of times it was repeated (I think over 200 times). There's also a timbral modulation some time later and some drum changes marking structural changes. And a bell at the end. What is more interesting, and hard to really discuss if you are not familiar with the genre (which I was not and still am not) is why the song writers would use them and what they reference explicitly and implicitly and so on. I would love for anyone to tell me more about the song and its context! Actually, thinking about music, or anything, like this is terrible. I read a book on Japanese architecture whose author (an awarded architecture professor from the US) I have forgotten which was basically listing as context-less observations everything she saw. For example "and this is a join typical of the suki-ya house, it's made by hand out of this wood and with these tools. Then it goes here. The suki-ya house has a table here used for writing. The walls are made with plaster over a bamboo mesh." etc. I learnt very little, although I knew a lot of factoids afterwards. But there are writers (like Marc Peter Keane [1]) who are much better, because they introduce everything with their meaning and where they stand in the tradition and mindset and history of the culture that produced it. [1] e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Garden-Design-Marc-Keane/dp/0804838569 http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Garden-Design-Marc-Keane/dp/0... which is actually a nice very basic introduction to how Japanese history shaped its aesthetics.
  - nosuchthing 11y ago
    EDM, and DP in particular focus almost entirely on sound design techniques, rhythm, tonal qualities and timbre, mostly with minimal use of chord progression. "One more time" is a bit tongue and cheek on pop music and electronica. Good example of the tonal and rhythmic focus in DP production style, "Rollin' & Scratching" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbb8kZw-xRg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbb8kZw-xRg There's certainly context for Daft Punk if you want to dive into their brains (record collectors, hip hop, electro, disco, funk, (French)-house, Detroit techno, German psychedelic 'Krautrock'), and much like the bulk of architects and musicians prior and since, DP's production style was/is largely the product of tools and techniques available to them. http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes/Daft_Punk/Live_At_Further_1996 http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes/Daft_Punk/Live_At_Further_19... http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes/Daft_Punk/Live_In_Borealis_Montepellier http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes/Daft_Punk/Live_In_Borealis_M... http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes http://ravearchive.com/zine http://ravearchive.com/zine

by crdb 11y ago

PhasmaFelis 11y ago

> (I say this as someone who brought a Daft Punk track to an analysis class as a joke which turned into a 1h30 discussion on the only three elements we were able to isolate). I'm curious what "elements" means in the context.

crdb 11y ago
It's been a long time and I took a break from music until I could actually enjoy it again. I vaguely remember the track being (I think) "one more time" and so there was the voice/instrumental motif accompanying the rather limited lyrics, the motif that opens the song fading in and continues as the background, maybe the drum motif in the background, and the number of times it was repeated (I think over 200 times). There's also a timbral modulation some time later and some drum changes marking structural changes. And a bell at the end. What is more interesting, and hard to really discuss if you are not familiar with the genre (which I was not and still am not) is why the song writers would use them and what they reference explicitly and implicitly and so on. I would love for anyone to tell me more about the song and its context! Actually, thinking about music, or anything, like this is terrible. I read a book on Japanese architecture whose author (an awarded architecture professor from the US) I have forgotten which was basically listing as context-less observations everything she saw. For example "and this is a join typical of the suki-ya house, it's made by hand out of this wood and with these tools. Then it goes here. The suki-ya house has a table here used for writing. The walls are made with plaster over a bamboo mesh." etc. I learnt very little, although I knew a lot of factoids afterwards. But there are writers (like Marc Peter Keane [1]) who are much better, because they introduce everything with their meaning and where they stand in the tradition and mindset and history of the culture that produced it. [1] e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Garden-Design-Marc-Keane/dp/0804838569 http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Garden-Design-Marc-Keane/dp/0... which is actually a nice very basic introduction to how Japanese history shaped its aesthetics.
- nosuchthing 11y ago
  EDM, and DP in particular focus almost entirely on sound design techniques, rhythm, tonal qualities and timbre, mostly with minimal use of chord progression. "One more time" is a bit tongue and cheek on pop music and electronica. Good example of the tonal and rhythmic focus in DP production style, "Rollin' & Scratching" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbb8kZw-xRg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbb8kZw-xRg There's certainly context for Daft Punk if you want to dive into their brains (record collectors, hip hop, electro, disco, funk, (French)-house, Detroit techno, German psychedelic 'Krautrock'), and much like the bulk of architects and musicians prior and since, DP's production style was/is largely the product of tools and techniques available to them. http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes/Daft_Punk/Live_At_Further_1996 http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes/Daft_Punk/Live_At_Further_19... http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes/Daft_Punk/Live_In_Borealis_Montepellier http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes/Daft_Punk/Live_In_Borealis_M... http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes http://ravearchive.com/mixtapes http://ravearchive.com/zine http://ravearchive.com/zine