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Yeah, I don't really understand this, either. Most of the sales folks (just look at her resume..) I've worked with 'look' like a non-technical person. They ab

by bpchaps 11y ago

Yeah, I don't really understand this, either. Most of the sales folks (just look at her resume..) I've worked with 'look' like a non-technical person. They absolutely look like they're trying to sell me something - whether it's through mannerisms, appearance, attitude or way of speaking. I'm going to ask them if they're technical if they're giving non-technical vibes as they try to sell me a complicated piece of software. Why wouldn't I? Why does it suddenly become sexist if she's a woman? One of the most impressively technically proficient sysadmins I've ever worked with was an extremely attractive, high-energy woman. She's often not taken seriously because she's a woman. How does she prove her gender isn't a factor? She does good fucking work and never, EVER, brings her gender into it because it's not relevant. That's how gender equality gets solved, dammit. I understand that she's basically being treated as a piece of meat at these places.. But the focus of her article is that she's not being treated seriously as a technical person at a tech conference, despite NOT being a technical person! Fluff and more fluff.

glhaynes 11y ago
How does she prove her gender isn't a factor? She does good fucking work and never, EVER, brings her gender into it because it's not relevant. That's how gender equality gets solved, dammit. Gender equality would be solved if more women were doing good work while being silent about gender inequality? I … don't buy it. Gender equality gets solved by making gender inequality unacceptable. Men are the primary imposers of inequality; it's our responsibility to fix it.
- bpchaps 11y ago
  Sorry, should've been clear. It's one of the MANY ways to make it less acceptable to be shits towards others based on gender. Also, It's "our" responsibility to fix it? Can we let "them" help out with fixing this, too? :)
- GhotiFish 11y ago
  This I don't get. Women can't fix it? Men are just keeping them down by being soooo demeaning and sexist? Are women that powerless and frail that half-assed 1% of the time "micro-aggressions" are enough to keep a whole gender from perusing their dreams? That's BS I say. It's BS that men are "the primary instigators of sexism" and it's BS that "men are required to fix the equality gap".
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Not having lived it, its easy to ignore the corrosive environment. Sure a woman can survive being talked over in conversation. She can ignore being asked to get coffee every time there's a staff meeting. She can remind her boss to consider her for promotion every year. But to weather that and more (so much more) every day, 100 times a day for 20 years is a chore. It wears you down, burns you out, leaves you hating going to work. So women opt out, do something else. Rather than arguing fault, and throwing around irresponsible comments about how small an issue it is, I recommend listening to those having the problem, and working honestly to address personal issues. Like dismissing women's opinions out of hand, because hey! you don't have any problem with all that.
    - GhotiFish 11y ago
      Sorry, were you accusing me of dismissing a womens opinions out of hand? Were you just putting me next to the example to imply it? Or did you not mean to make that implication at all. If it's one of the first two, was your intention to publicly shame me or convince me? Because you can't do both of those things.
      - bpchaps 11y ago
        I got the same impression. I think your parent post is a fantastic example of folks not following the principle of charity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Sure, if you want to call me on it. The hyperbole about 1% half-assed yada yada is classic dismissive language.
KirinDave 11y ago
It is literally impossible not to bring your gender with you to work. The best you can do is lie about it, conceal it, or downplay it heavily. What's more, it's a tragedy to even imply this is what we should do. Our unique life experiences are what we're all supposed to draw on in the startup world to make great products. Yet mysteriously women are supposed to pack most of it in because it's controversial when a man is an ass to them. We reach "gender equality" when it is not a disadvantage to have any gender. Not by pretending gender doesn't exist and forcing everyone to homogenize.
stone-monkey 11y ago
I find your viewpoint a bit strange. You acknowledge the problems your coworker faces, but instead of thinking of how to fix what is obviously a systemic problem, your solution is basically, "suck it up."
- bpchaps 11y ago
  And I think your immediate reaction to my comment is also strange, but also knee-jerky and shallow. :). You're implying that I'm suggesting she's being weak by "sucking it up". That's not the case at all. Being strong and sucking it up are two WAY different things. By doing the former, she's able to get the stupidity of sexism out of the way. By doing so along with advice when asked, she's also personally helped many other women in her workplaces become more confident. That sort of thing spreads, and I've seen the effects she's had on others first hand. It's incredibly cool to see. How do you stop a bully? You don't give them the satisfaction that they hurt you.

by bpchaps 11y ago

glhaynes 11y ago

How does she prove her gender isn't a factor? She does good fucking work and never, EVER, brings her gender into it because it's not relevant. That's how gender equality gets solved, dammit. Gender equality would be solved if more women were doing good work while being silent about gender inequality? I … don't buy it. Gender equality gets solved by making gender inequality unacceptable. Men are the primary imposers of inequality; it's our responsibility to fix it.

bpchaps 11y ago
Sorry, should've been clear. It's one of the MANY ways to make it less acceptable to be shits towards others based on gender. Also, It's "our" responsibility to fix it? Can we let "them" help out with fixing this, too? :)
GhotiFish 11y ago
This I don't get. Women can't fix it? Men are just keeping them down by being soooo demeaning and sexist? Are women that powerless and frail that half-assed 1% of the time "micro-aggressions" are enough to keep a whole gender from perusing their dreams? That's BS I say. It's BS that men are "the primary instigators of sexism" and it's BS that "men are required to fix the equality gap".
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Not having lived it, its easy to ignore the corrosive environment. Sure a woman can survive being talked over in conversation. She can ignore being asked to get coffee every time there's a staff meeting. She can remind her boss to consider her for promotion every year. But to weather that and more (so much more) every day, 100 times a day for 20 years is a chore. It wears you down, burns you out, leaves you hating going to work. So women opt out, do something else. Rather than arguing fault, and throwing around irresponsible comments about how small an issue it is, I recommend listening to those having the problem, and working honestly to address personal issues. Like dismissing women's opinions out of hand, because hey! you don't have any problem with all that.
  - GhotiFish 11y ago
    Sorry, were you accusing me of dismissing a womens opinions out of hand? Were you just putting me next to the example to imply it? Or did you not mean to make that implication at all. If it's one of the first two, was your intention to publicly shame me or convince me? Because you can't do both of those things.
    - bpchaps 11y ago
      I got the same impression. I think your parent post is a fantastic example of folks not following the principle of charity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Sure, if you want to call me on it. The hyperbole about 1% half-assed yada yada is classic dismissive language.

KirinDave 11y ago

It is literally impossible not to bring your gender with you to work. The best you can do is lie about it, conceal it, or downplay it heavily. What's more, it's a tragedy to even imply this is what we should do. Our unique life experiences are what we're all supposed to draw on in the startup world to make great products. Yet mysteriously women are supposed to pack most of it in because it's controversial when a man is an ass to them. We reach "gender equality" when it is not a disadvantage to have any gender. Not by pretending gender doesn't exist and forcing everyone to homogenize.

stone-monkey 11y ago

I find your viewpoint a bit strange. You acknowledge the problems your coworker faces, but instead of thinking of how to fix what is obviously a systemic problem, your solution is basically, "suck it up."

bpchaps 11y ago
And I think your immediate reaction to my comment is also strange, but also knee-jerky and shallow. :). You're implying that I'm suggesting she's being weak by "sucking it up". That's not the case at all. Being strong and sucking it up are two WAY different things. By doing the former, she's able to get the stupidity of sexism out of the way. By doing so along with advice when asked, she's also personally helped many other women in her workplaces become more confident. That sort of thing spreads, and I've seen the effects she's had on others first hand. It's incredibly cool to see. How do you stop a bully? You don't give them the satisfaction that they hurt you.