4 ms·

> There are 30 three-star restaurants in Japan, as of this writing, compared with 26 in France and 12 in the U.S. Michelin began rating restaurants in Japan aro

by song 11y ago

> There are 30 three-star restaurants in Japan, as of this writing, compared with 26 in France and 12 in the U.S. Michelin began rating restaurants in Japan around the same time the guide came to America. As a French guy who lived in Japan for some time, I've got a very simple explanation for why Japan has more Michelin stars than France. If you go to a normal average restaurant in France, the food will usually not be very good, they will serve dishes prepared with pre-made sauces from Metro, they won't serve anything amazing. There's a very big discrepancy in France between normal restaurants priced less than 20 euros per person for lunch without wine and the gourmet more expensive restaurants. People also go out to restaurants a lot less than in Japan so there are less restaurants in France. In Japan, Osaka has 16,000 restaurants. Tokyo has 55,000 restaurants. Paris only has 14,000. Even restaurants that are not very expensive (1000 yens lunches) in Japan tend to only use homemade ingredients. They don't use pre-made sauces. The average quality of normal restaurants is much higher and a lot of the Chefs at those restaurants are actually passionate about the food and try hard to improve their skills. So, it's simple, Japan is a country with at least twice the number of restaurants per population as France and with a much higher percentage of passionate chefs that want to improve their skills and are there for the love of food rather than for earning money. It's actually surprising that Japan still has so little Michelin stars. As for michelin stars, I actually trust the Gault et Millau guide a lot more in France, they don't care as much about the atmosphere and the service, they care about the food and ultimately that's the only that matters for me.

ngoel36 11y ago
Anecdotally, the Michelin restaurants in Japan optimize for much much more than just food. The most expensive meal I've ever had was at Kikunoi in Kyoto (3 Michelin stars). I was excited about this meal for MONTHS. And although I do love traditional Japanese food, the meal was - to be honest - worse than most Bib Gourmand meals I've had here in SF. Atmosphere and presentation - divine - but the food wasn't nearly as tasty as the 1000 yen bentos.
- crdb 11y ago
  (time to stick out my ignorant amateur neck for chopping) I'm sorry if this feels like the wrong tone, but how familiar are you with Japanese aesthetics and philosophy? I am only slightly familiar, but my understanding is that kaiseki ryori is not about "tasty" but a form of philosophical statement by the chef (for example, seasonal touches referring to the impermanence of life), and also a means of linking with nature. For example, the rough, asymmetrical, and "used-looking" look of the tableware, in contrast to say the impeccable and ornate perfection of the Chinese equivalent, references wabi-sabi and is meant to both complement the seasonal and natural feel of the ingredients, and make you think about the bittersweet nature of ephemeral life. There might even be cultural references. In many cases you're supposed to get out still feeling slightly hungry. Each dish evokes a different feeling and the succession of feelings and the way in which they are executed are what a meal like Kikunoi is about. (dear Japanese readers please correct me) It's like "no" theatre (not kabuki!): a highly formalized, stylized art form where the audience is expected to be familiar with everything already and is appreciating only the "how" not the "what" of the play. A no performance uses archaic language modern Japanese audiences don't even understand, but all the attendees know the words already. It would feel tremendously boring to an outsider (guilty!), with not much visually happening, whilst your Japanese host gets excited about the masterly way in which bending the head a couple of degrees down has utterly changed the implied feeling of the actor. When I first travelled to Japan, I was frustrated by the lack of intensity present in, well, everything, from architecture to food (except fast food) and even fashion. My relatively frequent trips to Japan improved a lot after I took the time to read books to try and understand the local mindset, at least of Kamakura to Edo period Japan (when the warriors took over from the overly sophisticated aristocracy that ran the country from Kyoto in the Heian period). It is this refinement within the constraints of simplicity (with the tea ceremony the most extreme example) that makes Japanese arts so sophisticated. We sort of have it in the West too; Mozart is not impressive aurally in the way that, say, Rachmaninov or Liszt might be, but playing Mozart well (or something like Liszt's Pilgrimage Years) requires a lifetime of study and is appreciated for its subtlety and control and life experience more than the sheer block of sound and expressed ideas in the content.
  - nosuchthing 11y ago
    Reminds me of how different people appreciate and create distinctions between "high art", pop art, lowbrow art, and outsider art. Reading Yelp reviews makes me cringe at all the people who demand attentive service from restaurant staff, and all the attention to venue and atmosphere. Personally, when I go to a restaurant, generally I go to find some tasty food, atmosphere is always besides the point. Obviously some people factor in obscure details of food venue experiences to their reviews and they care about those things. As in music, some people love obscure subgenres of repetitive techno or metal, or specific renditions of classical songs played at a certain venue during a specific point in time by a regional musician, played at a specific pacing. Reviews are always someone else's opinion, which is great if the reviewer can articulate the goods and bads of their personal experience for others to relate to. What Happens When Second Graders Are Treated to a Seven-Course, $220 Tasting Meal http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/magazine/fine-dining-for-second-graders.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/magazine/fine-dining-for-s...
- paulsutter 11y ago
  Kikunoi is excellent, but it can be challenging for westerners to appreciate, especially some seafood dishes. I've adjusted a lot, but I still don't eat shirako[1] for example, which they often serve (male fish sperm). Once you're accustomed to the food in Japan, the ingredients taste ... low grade even at most of the "nicer" restaurants in San Francisco (especially the meats or fish). Japanese say this secretly to each other, only Japanese can taste it, but actually anyone who lives in Tokyo long enough can taste it. song is very correct. The quickest way to appreciate the food in Japan, try the $10 pasta at any place highly rated on Tabelog, and you will see that the quality difference is just as song describes. The difference extends far beyond the chefs, it's the farms, fisheries, logistics and overall high standards all working together. [1] http://www.thekitchn.com/the-strangest-food-i-ever-ate-2-91992 http://www.thekitchn.com/the-strangest-food-i-ever-ate-2-919...
  - jawngee 11y ago
    Shirako is one of my favorite dishes, though the first time I ate it nobody told me what it was until we were in the cab ride home from the restaurant. I was wondering why my ex-wife's mom kept giggling during dinner.
imjk 11y ago
That's funny. Just a single anecdote, but the best meal my gf and I had while traveling through Europe was at a "commoner" pub at 2AM after the hotel concierge told me there's no real food I could find at that time.

by song 11y ago

ngoel36 11y ago

Anecdotally, the Michelin restaurants in Japan optimize for much much more than just food. The most expensive meal I've ever had was at Kikunoi in Kyoto (3 Michelin stars). I was excited about this meal for MONTHS. And although I do love traditional Japanese food, the meal was - to be honest - worse than most Bib Gourmand meals I've had here in SF. Atmosphere and presentation - divine - but the food wasn't nearly as tasty as the 1000 yen bentos.

crdb 11y ago
(time to stick out my ignorant amateur neck for chopping) I'm sorry if this feels like the wrong tone, but how familiar are you with Japanese aesthetics and philosophy? I am only slightly familiar, but my understanding is that kaiseki ryori is not about "tasty" but a form of philosophical statement by the chef (for example, seasonal touches referring to the impermanence of life), and also a means of linking with nature. For example, the rough, asymmetrical, and "used-looking" look of the tableware, in contrast to say the impeccable and ornate perfection of the Chinese equivalent, references wabi-sabi and is meant to both complement the seasonal and natural feel of the ingredients, and make you think about the bittersweet nature of ephemeral life. There might even be cultural references. In many cases you're supposed to get out still feeling slightly hungry. Each dish evokes a different feeling and the succession of feelings and the way in which they are executed are what a meal like Kikunoi is about. (dear Japanese readers please correct me) It's like "no" theatre (not kabuki!): a highly formalized, stylized art form where the audience is expected to be familiar with everything already and is appreciating only the "how" not the "what" of the play. A no performance uses archaic language modern Japanese audiences don't even understand, but all the attendees know the words already. It would feel tremendously boring to an outsider (guilty!), with not much visually happening, whilst your Japanese host gets excited about the masterly way in which bending the head a couple of degrees down has utterly changed the implied feeling of the actor. When I first travelled to Japan, I was frustrated by the lack of intensity present in, well, everything, from architecture to food (except fast food) and even fashion. My relatively frequent trips to Japan improved a lot after I took the time to read books to try and understand the local mindset, at least of Kamakura to Edo period Japan (when the warriors took over from the overly sophisticated aristocracy that ran the country from Kyoto in the Heian period). It is this refinement within the constraints of simplicity (with the tea ceremony the most extreme example) that makes Japanese arts so sophisticated. We sort of have it in the West too; Mozart is not impressive aurally in the way that, say, Rachmaninov or Liszt might be, but playing Mozart well (or something like Liszt's Pilgrimage Years) requires a lifetime of study and is appreciated for its subtlety and control and life experience more than the sheer block of sound and expressed ideas in the content.
- nosuchthing 11y ago
  Reminds me of how different people appreciate and create distinctions between "high art", pop art, lowbrow art, and outsider art. Reading Yelp reviews makes me cringe at all the people who demand attentive service from restaurant staff, and all the attention to venue and atmosphere. Personally, when I go to a restaurant, generally I go to find some tasty food, atmosphere is always besides the point. Obviously some people factor in obscure details of food venue experiences to their reviews and they care about those things. As in music, some people love obscure subgenres of repetitive techno or metal, or specific renditions of classical songs played at a certain venue during a specific point in time by a regional musician, played at a specific pacing. Reviews are always someone else's opinion, which is great if the reviewer can articulate the goods and bads of their personal experience for others to relate to. What Happens When Second Graders Are Treated to a Seven-Course, $220 Tasting Meal http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/magazine/fine-dining-for-second-graders.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/magazine/fine-dining-for-s...
paulsutter 11y ago
Kikunoi is excellent, but it can be challenging for westerners to appreciate, especially some seafood dishes. I've adjusted a lot, but I still don't eat shirako[1] for example, which they often serve (male fish sperm). Once you're accustomed to the food in Japan, the ingredients taste ... low grade even at most of the "nicer" restaurants in San Francisco (especially the meats or fish). Japanese say this secretly to each other, only Japanese can taste it, but actually anyone who lives in Tokyo long enough can taste it. song is very correct. The quickest way to appreciate the food in Japan, try the $10 pasta at any place highly rated on Tabelog, and you will see that the quality difference is just as song describes. The difference extends far beyond the chefs, it's the farms, fisheries, logistics and overall high standards all working together. [1] http://www.thekitchn.com/the-strangest-food-i-ever-ate-2-91992 http://www.thekitchn.com/the-strangest-food-i-ever-ate-2-919...
- jawngee 11y ago
  Shirako is one of my favorite dishes, though the first time I ate it nobody told me what it was until we were in the cab ride home from the restaurant. I was wondering why my ex-wife's mom kept giggling during dinner.

imjk 11y ago

That's funny. Just a single anecdote, but the best meal my gf and I had while traveling through Europe was at a "commoner" pub at 2AM after the hotel concierge told me there's no real food I could find at that time.