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It's unfortunate that the text of this included power and speed limit caps in the definition of an electric skateboard. It's not as if cars are defined as only

It's unfortunate that the text of this included power and speed limit caps in the definition of an electric skateboard. It's not as if cars are defined as only moving under 65 mph and having 120 horsepower. This seems deeply myopic and it's disappointing for Boosted and others to have helped these provisions get cast into law in a state that limits future development and defines unnecessarily conservative limits on performance. "An “electrically motorized board” is any wheeled device that has a floorboard designed to be stood upon when riding that is not greater than 60 inches deep and 18 inches wide, is designed to transport only one person, and has an electric propulsion system averaging less than 1,000 watts, the maximum speed of which, when powered solely by a propulsion system on a paved level surface, is no more than 20 miles per hour."

bri3d 11y ago
Low speed electric bicycles are federally limited to 750W and 20mph as well, which probably helped guide this regulatory process. I personally think a 20mph speed limit is very reasonable when regulating the use of motorized products on infrastructure shared directly with other uses (paths and bike lanes).
- etrautmann 11y ago
  Electric boards clearly shouldn't be on sidewalks, same as bikes. I'm often stuck slowing down bikes going gently downhill because my boosted board won't go faster than 22. This becomes a safety hazard as bikes try to pass, etc. Bikes don't have separate speed limits in bike lanes and are capable of speeds much higher than 20. Ability to ride uphill is also a function of output power. This cap is fairly generous but I don't understand why its necessary at all if there's a speed restriction? It'll only limit acceleration and hill performance if there's a speed restriction.
  - bsimpson 11y ago
    They could be Volkswagened: When on a level surface, cap the speed to 20mph. When on an incline, turbo mode!
    - ghostfish 11y ago
      This is exactly what several electric "bicycles" do now. They have a road mode which conforms to the federal 750W/20MPH limit, and an offroad mode that allows something like several kilowatts and perhaps 40MPH.
    - seanp2k2 11y ago
      Or they could be Volkswagened and say that it puts out 1000w when it really does 2000 :)
      - stcredzero 11y ago
        That would kind of be anti-Volkswagening, in that Volkswagen cars had more power than they would have, had they not cheated on emissions standards.
  - MereInterest 11y ago
    > Electric boards clearly shouldn't be on sidewalks, same as bikes. Regarding bikes, it depends entirely on where you live. If you are in an urban area, where the sidewalks are crowded, and cars can't get up to high speed before the next stoplight, then certainly bikes should be on the street. If you are in a suburban area, where sidewalks are empty and cars travel at easily twice your maximum speed, then the streets are not safe for biking.
    - trhway 11y ago
      >where sidewalks are empty and cars travel at easily twice your maximum speed, then the streets are not safe for biking. the streets are safe, the law explicitly requires 3 feet lateral separation or no pass. Choosing to endanger people on sidewalk just because not enough balls to ride on the street is kind of low.
      - MereInterest 11y ago
        What the law says and what drivers do are significantly different. A 45 mph road with poor visibility is not safe to bike on. Alternatively, I cannot endanger people on the sidewalk if there are no people on the sidewalk.
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        > Choosing to endanger people on sidewalk just because not enough balls to ride on the street is kind of low. Yeah, well, fuck it. I don't have the balls. I also have enough empathy to understand I'm two-three times slower than cars on the road in my city and drivers are seriously pissed at me when I'm holding down city traffic.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
        The law isn't going to scrape me up and put me back together after some redneck turns me into road pizza. I do my best to ride safely for myself and everyone else. Usually, that means taking my rightful place in the road. Sometimes it means riding an empty sidewalk, eyes peeled, at a reasonable speed. Staying alive is more important than demonstrating the size of my balls, thanks.
  - hugh4 11y ago
    They shouldn't be on roads either. What bikes have that electric skateboards don't is stability -- it's extremely rare for a cyclist doing 20mph to suddenly fall off entirely, but falling off a skateboard is pretty easy.
    - tajen 11y ago
      Cars should be forbidden, at least in cities. As an asthmatic person, as an endangered pedestrian, as a citizen who cares about sustainable development, as an urbanist who cares about public space and population density, cars may solve problems like how to carry 3 children to school or how to show off about professional success, but I hope we'll limit its usage. My friends in Sydney who have a family, have no car.
      - Wingman4l7 11y ago
        Cities self-limit car ownership. There isn't enough parking and if alternative means of transport (Uber, Car2Go, buses) are dense enough, people can get away without owning them.
        SilasX 11y ago
        Partly true, but a lot of cities inconvenience the general public to mask the general self-limiting phenomenon, for example by sacrificing space for parking lanes.
      - dogma1138 11y ago
        > "endangered pedestrian" Sigh that's level 10000 there. I've been by far hit/forcibly stopped/run out of my path by bikes (and other non-motored or low powered vehicles) than by cars. Bike riders seem that they think that they own anything that the drive on they never give way on a crosswalk when it crosses a bike lane, when they drive on the sidewalk they are a menace (and often are quite rude if you make them stop or slow down), and they quite often do what ever they want in intersections especially during red signals because no one ever stops them. Oh it's a red signal no cars are coming lets take a left here not caring that it's a green light for pedestrians we'll just hand signal and spam the bell then be annoyed when they actually don't let us pass and yell that they are engendering us because cars are now coming. I for one would not mind that people who want to commute on bikes will actually be forced to get a proper license and that police will start actively enforcing and ticketing them (as well as having a license plate that will allow people to call in and complain).
  - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
    > Ability to ride uphill is also a function of output power. This cap is fairly generous but I don't understand why its necessary at all if there's a speed restriction? It'll only limit acceleration and hill performance if there's a speed restriction. Hm. It does say "averaging less than 1,000 watts". I wonder if that means it's allowed to turbo up to maintain 20mph on the uphill, as long the average stays within bounds during tests.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- jchrisa 11y ago
  I have a couple of electric bikes and a boosted, and the big advantage to being able to do a steady 25 mph is the ability to take the lane on neighborhood streets and be going the speed limit.
  - bri3d 11y ago
    That makes sense - I suppose in that sense, matching the regulation for bikes and for boards doesn't really make sense. I have an e-bike I built that won't do over 20 on electric power, but I still do tend to take the lane and go 25-30 on the street thanks to pedal assist (which boards don't have).
  - jacobolus 11y ago
    Ideally cars should also be limited to 20 mph on all non-arterial streets, and IMO no faster than ~30 mph anywhere that isn’t a highway. Drivers have a dramatically longer time to react and much better road awareness at 20mph compared to 30–35 mph, and at 20 mph something like 5% of collisions with cyclists/pedestrians are fatal, whereas at 35+ mph the majority of such collisions are fatal. Fast-moving cars are death machines, in the hands of people I am not happy to trust with my life.
  - schrodinger 11y ago
    I've been riding a boosted almost every day since July, and I certainly wouldn't feel safe going 25mph with a car behind me while taking a lane. The littlest piece of debris can send you flying, and that car behind you would run you right over.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
toast0 11y ago
California defines classes of vehicles with different safety requirements and horsepower/speed/engine size caps. A 40 mph skateboard shouldn't be allowed on bikeways, or with a bike helmet; and maybe needs lights or something for visibility.
ScottBurson 11y ago
Having ridden a 600W electric skateboard, I think 20mph is plenty. They don't brake as well as bicycles -- they can't, because of the need to shift one's weight to stay balanced during braking. Mine's for sale if anyone wants to buy it. I live in Sunnyvale. Email in profile.
yason 11y ago
In Europe, the strictest interpretations of the directives regarding electric bicycles only allow for 250W of motor assistance at a maximum speed of 25 km/h, and only when the bike is pedalled at the same time. And bicycles are still quite stable and 25 km/h is not a particularly high speed: I can reach 40-45 km/h without motor assistance myself. So, no wonder pedelecs aren't that appealing here. That 1KW and 20 mph is still rather generous for a skateboard.
- zensavona 11y ago
  Not sure where in Europe you mean, but I live in Germany and we have e-bikes with motors far bigger than 250w - you just need to have liability insurance (EUR50/yr)

bri3d 11y ago

Low speed electric bicycles are federally limited to 750W and 20mph as well, which probably helped guide this regulatory process. I personally think a 20mph speed limit is very reasonable when regulating the use of motorized products on infrastructure shared directly with other uses (paths and bike lanes).

etrautmann 11y ago
Electric boards clearly shouldn't be on sidewalks, same as bikes. I'm often stuck slowing down bikes going gently downhill because my boosted board won't go faster than 22. This becomes a safety hazard as bikes try to pass, etc. Bikes don't have separate speed limits in bike lanes and are capable of speeds much higher than 20. Ability to ride uphill is also a function of output power. This cap is fairly generous but I don't understand why its necessary at all if there's a speed restriction? It'll only limit acceleration and hill performance if there's a speed restriction.
- bsimpson 11y ago
  They could be Volkswagened: When on a level surface, cap the speed to 20mph. When on an incline, turbo mode!
  - ghostfish 11y ago
    This is exactly what several electric "bicycles" do now. They have a road mode which conforms to the federal 750W/20MPH limit, and an offroad mode that allows something like several kilowatts and perhaps 40MPH.
  - seanp2k2 11y ago
    Or they could be Volkswagened and say that it puts out 1000w when it really does 2000 :)
    - stcredzero 11y ago
      That would kind of be anti-Volkswagening, in that Volkswagen cars had more power than they would have, had they not cheated on emissions standards.
- MereInterest 11y ago
  > Electric boards clearly shouldn't be on sidewalks, same as bikes. Regarding bikes, it depends entirely on where you live. If you are in an urban area, where the sidewalks are crowded, and cars can't get up to high speed before the next stoplight, then certainly bikes should be on the street. If you are in a suburban area, where sidewalks are empty and cars travel at easily twice your maximum speed, then the streets are not safe for biking.
  - trhway 11y ago
    >where sidewalks are empty and cars travel at easily twice your maximum speed, then the streets are not safe for biking. the streets are safe, the law explicitly requires 3 feet lateral separation or no pass. Choosing to endanger people on sidewalk just because not enough balls to ride on the street is kind of low.
    - MereInterest 11y ago
      What the law says and what drivers do are significantly different. A 45 mph road with poor visibility is not safe to bike on. Alternatively, I cannot endanger people on the sidewalk if there are no people on the sidewalk.
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      > Choosing to endanger people on sidewalk just because not enough balls to ride on the street is kind of low. Yeah, well, fuck it. I don't have the balls. I also have enough empathy to understand I'm two-three times slower than cars on the road in my city and drivers are seriously pissed at me when I'm holding down city traffic.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
      The law isn't going to scrape me up and put me back together after some redneck turns me into road pizza. I do my best to ride safely for myself and everyone else. Usually, that means taking my rightful place in the road. Sometimes it means riding an empty sidewalk, eyes peeled, at a reasonable speed. Staying alive is more important than demonstrating the size of my balls, thanks.
- hugh4 11y ago
  They shouldn't be on roads either. What bikes have that electric skateboards don't is stability -- it's extremely rare for a cyclist doing 20mph to suddenly fall off entirely, but falling off a skateboard is pretty easy.
  - tajen 11y ago
    Cars should be forbidden, at least in cities. As an asthmatic person, as an endangered pedestrian, as a citizen who cares about sustainable development, as an urbanist who cares about public space and population density, cars may solve problems like how to carry 3 children to school or how to show off about professional success, but I hope we'll limit its usage. My friends in Sydney who have a family, have no car.
    - Wingman4l7 11y ago
      Cities self-limit car ownership. There isn't enough parking and if alternative means of transport (Uber, Car2Go, buses) are dense enough, people can get away without owning them.
      - SilasX 11y ago
        Partly true, but a lot of cities inconvenience the general public to mask the general self-limiting phenomenon, for example by sacrificing space for parking lanes.
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      > "endangered pedestrian" Sigh that's level 10000 there. I've been by far hit/forcibly stopped/run out of my path by bikes (and other non-motored or low powered vehicles) than by cars. Bike riders seem that they think that they own anything that the drive on they never give way on a crosswalk when it crosses a bike lane, when they drive on the sidewalk they are a menace (and often are quite rude if you make them stop or slow down), and they quite often do what ever they want in intersections especially during red signals because no one ever stops them. Oh it's a red signal no cars are coming lets take a left here not caring that it's a green light for pedestrians we'll just hand signal and spam the bell then be annoyed when they actually don't let us pass and yell that they are engendering us because cars are now coming. I for one would not mind that people who want to commute on bikes will actually be forced to get a proper license and that police will start actively enforcing and ticketing them (as well as having a license plate that will allow people to call in and complain).
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  > Ability to ride uphill is also a function of output power. This cap is fairly generous but I don't understand why its necessary at all if there's a speed restriction? It'll only limit acceleration and hill performance if there's a speed restriction. Hm. It does say "averaging less than 1,000 watts". I wonder if that means it's allowed to turbo up to maintain 20mph on the uphill, as long the average stays within bounds during tests.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
jchrisa 11y ago
I have a couple of electric bikes and a boosted, and the big advantage to being able to do a steady 25 mph is the ability to take the lane on neighborhood streets and be going the speed limit.
- bri3d 11y ago
  That makes sense - I suppose in that sense, matching the regulation for bikes and for boards doesn't really make sense. I have an e-bike I built that won't do over 20 on electric power, but I still do tend to take the lane and go 25-30 on the street thanks to pedal assist (which boards don't have).
- jacobolus 11y ago
  Ideally cars should also be limited to 20 mph on all non-arterial streets, and IMO no faster than ~30 mph anywhere that isn’t a highway. Drivers have a dramatically longer time to react and much better road awareness at 20mph compared to 30–35 mph, and at 20 mph something like 5% of collisions with cyclists/pedestrians are fatal, whereas at 35+ mph the majority of such collisions are fatal. Fast-moving cars are death machines, in the hands of people I am not happy to trust with my life.
- schrodinger 11y ago
  I've been riding a boosted almost every day since July, and I certainly wouldn't feel safe going 25mph with a car behind me while taking a lane. The littlest piece of debris can send you flying, and that car behind you would run you right over.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

toast0 11y ago

California defines classes of vehicles with different safety requirements and horsepower/speed/engine size caps. A 40 mph skateboard shouldn't be allowed on bikeways, or with a bike helmet; and maybe needs lights or something for visibility.

ScottBurson 11y ago

Having ridden a 600W electric skateboard, I think 20mph is plenty. They don't brake as well as bicycles -- they can't, because of the need to shift one's weight to stay balanced during braking. Mine's for sale if anyone wants to buy it. I live in Sunnyvale. Email in profile.

yason 11y ago

In Europe, the strictest interpretations of the directives regarding electric bicycles only allow for 250W of motor assistance at a maximum speed of 25 km/h, and only when the bike is pedalled at the same time. And bicycles are still quite stable and 25 km/h is not a particularly high speed: I can reach 40-45 km/h without motor assistance myself. So, no wonder pedelecs aren't that appealing here. That 1KW and 20 mph is still rather generous for a skateboard.

zensavona 11y ago
Not sure where in Europe you mean, but I live in Germany and we have e-bikes with motors far bigger than 250w - you just need to have liability insurance (EUR50/yr)