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Right on. When considering lifestyle choices I ask myself how many people could live the same way. If it turns out to be a small minority before collapse, I r

Right on. When considering lifestyle choices I ask myself how many people could live the same way. If it turns out to be a small minority before collapse, I reject it as a path for myself. To me off grid lifestyle seems a retreat from the goods of society without a commensurate benefit to self and others. As an art movement or experiment I say fine.

dougmwne 11y ago
I’m sure some of these off-grid philosophies don’t hold water when you put it like that. However, consider that many people out there have been dealt a bad hand by society. They’ll never have the options or opportunities that most of us posting here take for granted. “Doing your part for society” may work for most of us, but it’s not a one-size-fits-all solution. Some people out there are going to have more peaceful and productive existences living at the margins.
- OneOneOneOne 11y ago
  I cannot say whether this is the right choice for others. An off grid, self reliant lifestyle is very attractive to me. This is my counter argument for myself.
Retric 11y ago
I suspect you could scale the 'off grid' lifestyle to around 1/2 the US population without many issues. Web + FedEx means a lot of jobs can be done remotely. Consider plenty of teachers work remotely even if most people think of it as a face to face job. Even some doctors have started to work remotely let alone the classic 9/5 office worker. Sure, city's are a far more efficient use of land and energy, but at least in the US we still have a lot of open space. PS: My only gripe is people think of this as a 'green' lifestyle. Generally, living in a city high-rise and using public transit is far better for the environment.
- Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
  >I suspect you could scale the 'off grid' lifestyle to around 1/2 the US population without many issues. As you spread out the population, the cost of FedEx deliveries is going to grow. Now you can drop off goods in a city via a highly efficient train, have that switched to a truck, and have it delivered to the end customer. If everyone is off the grid in the wilderness, that train becomes a lot less useful to deliver goods. Now you've got to reach a larger area to serve the same number of people. > Web + Fedex means a lot of jobs can be done remotely A lot of jobs can be done remotely, but that doesn't mean they could be done remotely without cost. Many people are less efficient when working remotely. I find communication to be much harder when remote than when in person, especially as issues get more complex.
  - Retric 11y ago
    FedEx works because people near you also need packages. The more packages they ship the more efficient they become. Also, the US population density is ~100 people per square mile so chances are good someone within 1 mile of you also needs a package today. Sure, it's cheaper for them to drop off 10 packages at the same apartment complex, but even fairly remote areas can be surprisingly profitable.
    - Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
      >Fedex works because people near you also need packages. That's exactly my point. The more people who need packages around you, the less it costs to deliver a package specifically to you. Going off the grid in remote corners sounds great, but part of the reason we moved to cities is because sharing infrastructure costs makes things more efficient. >Also, the US population density is ~100 people per square mile so chances are good someone within 1 mile of you also needs a package today. The US's population density is 100 people / square mile, but that doesn't tell you the full story. We don't live all over America, we are clustered into cities and towns, mostly on the coasts. There's a lot of desert and Alaskan wilderness with no one around bringing down the average. NYC alone is ~6% of the US population. The Northeast megalopolis is ~17% on ~2% of the land.

dougmwne 11y ago

I’m sure some of these off-grid philosophies don’t hold water when you put it like that. However, consider that many people out there have been dealt a bad hand by society. They’ll never have the options or opportunities that most of us posting here take for granted. “Doing your part for society” may work for most of us, but it’s not a one-size-fits-all solution. Some people out there are going to have more peaceful and productive existences living at the margins.

OneOneOneOne 11y ago
I cannot say whether this is the right choice for others. An off grid, self reliant lifestyle is very attractive to me. This is my counter argument for myself.

Retric 11y ago

I suspect you could scale the 'off grid' lifestyle to around 1/2 the US population without many issues. Web + FedEx means a lot of jobs can be done remotely. Consider plenty of teachers work remotely even if most people think of it as a face to face job. Even some doctors have started to work remotely let alone the classic 9/5 office worker. Sure, city's are a far more efficient use of land and energy, but at least in the US we still have a lot of open space. PS: My only gripe is people think of this as a 'green' lifestyle. Generally, living in a city high-rise and using public transit is far better for the environment.

Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
>I suspect you could scale the 'off grid' lifestyle to around 1/2 the US population without many issues. As you spread out the population, the cost of FedEx deliveries is going to grow. Now you can drop off goods in a city via a highly efficient train, have that switched to a truck, and have it delivered to the end customer. If everyone is off the grid in the wilderness, that train becomes a lot less useful to deliver goods. Now you've got to reach a larger area to serve the same number of people. > Web + Fedex means a lot of jobs can be done remotely A lot of jobs can be done remotely, but that doesn't mean they could be done remotely without cost. Many people are less efficient when working remotely. I find communication to be much harder when remote than when in person, especially as issues get more complex.
- Retric 11y ago
  FedEx works because people near you also need packages. The more packages they ship the more efficient they become. Also, the US population density is ~100 people per square mile so chances are good someone within 1 mile of you also needs a package today. Sure, it's cheaper for them to drop off 10 packages at the same apartment complex, but even fairly remote areas can be surprisingly profitable.
  - Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
    >Fedex works because people near you also need packages. That's exactly my point. The more people who need packages around you, the less it costs to deliver a package specifically to you. Going off the grid in remote corners sounds great, but part of the reason we moved to cities is because sharing infrastructure costs makes things more efficient. >Also, the US population density is ~100 people per square mile so chances are good someone within 1 mile of you also needs a package today. The US's population density is 100 people / square mile, but that doesn't tell you the full story. We don't live all over America, we are clustered into cities and towns, mostly on the coasts. There's a lot of desert and Alaskan wilderness with no one around bringing down the average. NYC alone is ~6% of the US population. The Northeast megalopolis is ~17% on ~2% of the land.