20 ms·

Not including flash on a tablet seems like a mistake to me. It's one thing on a cell phone, but quite another on a device that will probably be positioned as a

by jcnnghm 17y ago

Not including flash on a tablet seems like a mistake to me. It's one thing on a cell phone, but quite another on a device that will probably be positioned as a casual use computer.

axod 17y ago
The future isn't flash (IMHO). I think leaving it out makes absolute perfect sense. It also makes commercial sense - they don't want people playing flash games on the web, they want them buying games from the appstore.
- brk 17y ago
  The future isn't flash Yeah, well the future also isn't here yet. Flash still has much relevance for any web-surfing focused product shipping today.
  - simonw 17y ago
    Yes it is, it's just not yet evenly distributed.
    - josefresco 17y ago
      So that would mean that the 'evenly distributed' future isn't here yet? Wouldn't that still make it the future? Oh wait my head asploded.
      - axod 17y ago
        The point is sites are already using HTML video, websockets, canvas, etc etc etc. The future is now for websites and browsers that support it.
    - boucher 17y ago
      It really isn't. Mainstream sites still play video with Flash, and I doubt that is going to change in 2010. But, we'll see.
      - tewks 17y ago
        Most people (Youtube) use flash as a wrapper around h.264; the other codecs supported are pretty terrible.
    - wensing 17y ago
      The challenge comes when a business must make the majority of its revenue off those that haven't yet received the future. Still supporting IE6, aren't we?
  - wmeredith 17y ago
    I'm not sure about this. Or I should say I am sure this is wrong for me and I'm not sure about anyone else. I do about 1/3 of my internet surfing on my iPhone, at least an hour or two a day and I rarely miss the Flash. In fact, I'd say I'm actually glad it's not there. Most of my major online annoyances are Flash powered.
  - roc 17y ago
    Except perhaps for any high profile Apple device attached to the App Store (the case in question). Almost every mainstream site has verified mobile Webkit compatibility and/or dedicated applications. The group of people who still need Flash in that scenario is small enough that leaving it out wouldn't likely have a measurable effect on adoption. For a web product from a company that can't command as much market attention, shipping without Flash might well be a death knell. But Apple's different. The App Store is different.
  - weaties 17y ago
    I run click2flash, and I rarely click2flash. Caveats, I don't do casual games, and I don't watch a lot of videos off of different sites.
SamAtt 17y ago
One of the things you have to consider is Apple's strategic goals beyond the Tablet or even the iPhone. There's a larger strategic issue here. HTML 5 is going to reduce a lot of the need for Flash and Flash in turn is going to be forced back into it's traditional market of providing streaming media solutions. In that role they are Apple biggest competitor both in format (Quicktime) and content (streaming media competing with iTunes) By keeping Flash off the iPhone and the tablet Apple is taking their very high income audience and telling web site developers "Support us or risk losses in advertising". In doing that they're using the iPhone and the tablet to further the company as a whole. Something that might be worth losing a few sales in the short run
tentonova2 17y ago
I don't think it's necessarily a mistake if your goal is to strong-arm the industry towards abandoning Flash.
- wallflower 17y ago
  "Were Flash Lite to gain momentum, it might make Adobe the Microsoft of mobiles, and Flash Lite the new Windows. That also makes it obvious why Apple wants to choke Flash to death before it falls into position as the new lowest common denominator in proprietary platforms on a new crop of mobile devices... And you thought the iPhone was just Apple's way of muscling into the mobile business! No, it’s really a proactive battle against a wide swatch of proprietary platforms promising to plague a new wave of mobile devices." http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/879DD82D-5595-4746-BFCE-524BBA7C7A85.html http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/879DD82D-559...
- robertj 17y ago
  or if your goal is to get more people to get their content from the iTunes Store.
- brianobush 17y ago
  The problem with flash (and the upside) is that it lets designers tackle the whole problem of site design, fonts, look and feel, etc in their domain. I would love to see flash replaced by html5 and css, but I think momentum is not on my side.
  - robertj 17y ago
    Yeah but take projects like typekit, for instance. Clearly there are businesses to be made in solving some of these problems, and smart designers understand the importance of web accessibility. It seems like as developers and designers we'll create much more wealth finding creative ways to abandon Flash.
rauljara 17y ago
The reason flash wasn't included on the cell phone was battery life: http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/post/231806385/adobe-gets-bitchy-over-the-iphone-and-flash-bit http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/post/231806385/adobe-gets-bitc... Non-windows versions of flash have turned out to be incredibly inefficient: relatively simple flash banner ads make my otherwise near idle mac go wild. From what I've seen, it's even less efficient on Linux. Battery life is still going to be a huge concern for the apple tablet. If adobe gets its sh*t together, it may yet come to the tablet/iPhone OS. Until that time, it would be ridiculous for apple to allow that poorly designed of a virtual machine onto its otherwise energy efficient hardware.
chollida1 17y ago
I'm not so sure that's true. I have flash block installed on all my computers. I've never had a problem surfing the web.
netcan 17y ago
IMO, no flash is mostly a deal-breaker on media type stuff. Watching or listening to stuff. The application side of flash is smaller. I imagine Apple has it's own ideas for how media on the tablet should work.

by jcnnghm 17y ago

Not including flash on a tablet seems like a mistake to me. It's one thing on a cell phone, but quite another on a device that will probably be positioned as a casual use computer.

axod 17y ago

The future isn't flash (IMHO). I think leaving it out makes absolute perfect sense. It also makes commercial sense - they don't want people playing flash games on the web, they want them buying games from the appstore.

brk 17y ago
The future isn't flash Yeah, well the future also isn't here yet. Flash still has much relevance for any web-surfing focused product shipping today.
- simonw 17y ago
  Yes it is, it's just not yet evenly distributed.
  - josefresco 17y ago
    So that would mean that the 'evenly distributed' future isn't here yet? Wouldn't that still make it the future? Oh wait my head asploded.
    - axod 17y ago
      The point is sites are already using HTML video, websockets, canvas, etc etc etc. The future is now for websites and browsers that support it.
  - boucher 17y ago
    It really isn't. Mainstream sites still play video with Flash, and I doubt that is going to change in 2010. But, we'll see.
    - tewks 17y ago
      Most people (Youtube) use flash as a wrapper around h.264; the other codecs supported are pretty terrible.
  - wensing 17y ago
    The challenge comes when a business must make the majority of its revenue off those that haven't yet received the future. Still supporting IE6, aren't we?
- wmeredith 17y ago
  I'm not sure about this. Or I should say I am sure this is wrong for me and I'm not sure about anyone else. I do about 1/3 of my internet surfing on my iPhone, at least an hour or two a day and I rarely miss the Flash. In fact, I'd say I'm actually glad it's not there. Most of my major online annoyances are Flash powered.
- roc 17y ago
  Except perhaps for any high profile Apple device attached to the App Store (the case in question). Almost every mainstream site has verified mobile Webkit compatibility and/or dedicated applications. The group of people who still need Flash in that scenario is small enough that leaving it out wouldn't likely have a measurable effect on adoption. For a web product from a company that can't command as much market attention, shipping without Flash might well be a death knell. But Apple's different. The App Store is different.
- weaties 17y ago
  I run click2flash, and I rarely click2flash. Caveats, I don't do casual games, and I don't watch a lot of videos off of different sites.

SamAtt 17y ago

One of the things you have to consider is Apple's strategic goals beyond the Tablet or even the iPhone. There's a larger strategic issue here. HTML 5 is going to reduce a lot of the need for Flash and Flash in turn is going to be forced back into it's traditional market of providing streaming media solutions. In that role they are Apple biggest competitor both in format (Quicktime) and content (streaming media competing with iTunes) By keeping Flash off the iPhone and the tablet Apple is taking their very high income audience and telling web site developers "Support us or risk losses in advertising". In doing that they're using the iPhone and the tablet to further the company as a whole. Something that might be worth losing a few sales in the short run

tentonova2 17y ago

I don't think it's necessarily a mistake if your goal is to strong-arm the industry towards abandoning Flash.

wallflower 17y ago
"Were Flash Lite to gain momentum, it might make Adobe the Microsoft of mobiles, and Flash Lite the new Windows. That also makes it obvious why Apple wants to choke Flash to death before it falls into position as the new lowest common denominator in proprietary platforms on a new crop of mobile devices... And you thought the iPhone was just Apple's way of muscling into the mobile business! No, it’s really a proactive battle against a wide swatch of proprietary platforms promising to plague a new wave of mobile devices." http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/879DD82D-5595-4746-BFCE-524BBA7C7A85.html http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/879DD82D-559...
robertj 17y ago
or if your goal is to get more people to get their content from the iTunes Store.
brianobush 17y ago
The problem with flash (and the upside) is that it lets designers tackle the whole problem of site design, fonts, look and feel, etc in their domain. I would love to see flash replaced by html5 and css, but I think momentum is not on my side.
- robertj 17y ago
  Yeah but take projects like typekit, for instance. Clearly there are businesses to be made in solving some of these problems, and smart designers understand the importance of web accessibility. It seems like as developers and designers we'll create much more wealth finding creative ways to abandon Flash.

rauljara 17y ago

The reason flash wasn't included on the cell phone was battery life: http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/post/231806385/adobe-gets-bitchy-over-the-iphone-and-flash-bit http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/post/231806385/adobe-gets-bitc... Non-windows versions of flash have turned out to be incredibly inefficient: relatively simple flash banner ads make my otherwise near idle mac go wild. From what I've seen, it's even less efficient on Linux. Battery life is still going to be a huge concern for the apple tablet. If adobe gets its sh*t together, it may yet come to the tablet/iPhone OS. Until that time, it would be ridiculous for apple to allow that poorly designed of a virtual machine onto its otherwise energy efficient hardware.

chollida1 17y ago

I'm not so sure that's true. I have flash block installed on all my computers. I've never had a problem surfing the web.

netcan 17y ago

IMO, no flash is mostly a deal-breaker on media type stuff. Watching or listening to stuff. The application side of flash is smaller. I imagine Apple has it's own ideas for how media on the tablet should work.