5 ms·

They're not discriminating against GLBT+ people, they're discriminating against people using pseudonyms. I can't show up to a job interview, use a fake name, an

by aianus 11y ago

They're not discriminating against GLBT+ people, they're discriminating against people using pseudonyms. I can't show up to a job interview, use a fake name, and claim I'm being discriminated against...

DanBC 11y ago
You know what indirect discrimination is, right? > I can't show up to a job interview, use a fake name, and claim I'm being discriminated against... You could if you're in the process of transitioning. (UK; the US needs to catch up). And it's not a fake name. It's their name. You seem to think that people have this single thing which is their name - that might be true in the US (I dunno) but it's not true in many other places. And because the US rules for changing names on documents are inconsistent a person may have a passport in one name but a driving licence in another.
- Symbiote 11y ago
  You could probably go further — at most only HR need to know an official name, probably with a note on the file reminding them that it's confidential. That need only be revealed once you're accepting the job offer. I have recently moved to Denmark, and several public or semi-public database systems have had special attention drawn to how my name might be used, and instructions to avoid certain uses. (For example, there seemed to be a special way to register in a municipality under an assumed name, to avoid stalkers etc.)
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  > You seem to think that people have this single thing which is their name - that might be true in the US (I dunno) but it's not true in many other places. Even people with one "real name" may have slight variations on it that they use. Many people use their nickname and don't show their middle name. If your name isn't written in Latin script, you might have the original script version and a romanised version, possibly even more than one romanised version. If you're Chinese, you might have a Western name alias which you're known by professionally.
- pmlnr 11y ago
  > And it's not a fake name. It's their name. You seem to think that people have this single thing which is their name - that might be true in the US (I dunno) but it's not true in many other places. Not according to the current laws. You may want to change the laws as well. ( No, I'm not cynical. )
  - DanBC 11y ago
    What laws? In the UK I can us any name I like so long as I don't have the intent to deceive. WIkipedia says that's the case for the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_name#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_name#United_States > Most states in the United States follow the common law which permits name changing for non-fraudulent purposes. This is actually the most common method, since most women who marry do not petition a court under the statutorily prescribed method, but simply use a new name (typically the husband's, a custom which started under the theory of coverture where a woman lost her identity and most rights when she married).[2] Most state courts have held that a legally assumed name (i.e., for a non-fraudulent purpose) is a legal name and usable as their true name, though assumed names are often not considered the person's technically true name.[3] In the US the different rules for getting a name changed on official documents sometimes leaves people with official documents in different names, so even if you restrict yourself to documents issued by US government authorities a person can have two names.
    - tsotha 11y ago
      Yep. In my state to officially change your name all you have to do is start using the new name, though you'll end up putting both down on the "AKA" section of official documents.
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
> They're not discriminating against GLBT+ people, they're discriminating against people using pseudonyms. Which disproportionately affects trans people.
nommm-nommm 11y ago
Serious question - What's a fake name? Plenty of people go by names that aren't the same as on their official government ID, even childhood nicknames. Your name is whatever people call you. There's no reason why future employers need to know your "legal" name on a job interview. When you get a job you need to fill out some HR forms and that's basically extent of it. Your coworkers/boss/clients/customers aren't obligated to address you by what is on your government issued ID. Probably half my office goes by something different than what's on their government IDs. Many childhood nicknames and many middle names. Even commonly used diminutives - Peggy for Margaret for example; JP for John Paul; Dick for Richard. If my legal name is Margaret Samathia Jones and I put Peggy Jones on my resume is that going by a fake name? You may have changed your name at marriage and are addressed by that name in personal circles but still are addressed as your birth name in a professional circles in order to better preserve your professional contacts. In plenty of professions it is extremely common to establish yourself professionally under a stage name or pen name or other types of "fake" names. Your legal name may be "cutesy" so you are addressed professionally by an assumed name.
- pc86 11y ago
  And nobody is having their Facebook account flagged for using "Peggy" instead of "Margaret," they're getting flagged for using "John TheSexMan Doe" instead of the "John Doe" or "Samantha Applebee" instead of "Mark Applebee." So it's a false comparison.
  - nommm-nommm 11y ago
    Hardly. People are getting their facebook flagged for pen names, stage names, derby names, drag names, and other professional names. As well as names that are too common or not common enough, nicknames, and names that contain nouns, adjectives, or adverbs without regards to what shows up on their birth certificate. Not to mention Native American names or other "ethnic" or non-Anglo Saxon names or anything that looks "unusual" (such as, say, Picabo Street or Dick Trickle) Look, if you have established yourself professionally as The Edge being forced to use facebook as David Howell Evans obviously isn't desirable to you especially if you want to use facebook to promote your works or other professional activities. And who in the fuck cares if someone is using a feminine sounding name that appears to be masculine. Nobody (and I mean nobody) should be the gender police, seriously. I have a female friend who is named "Robert" anyways.

by aianus 11y ago

DanBC 11y ago

You know what indirect discrimination is, right? > I can't show up to a job interview, use a fake name, and claim I'm being discriminated against... You could if you're in the process of transitioning. (UK; the US needs to catch up). And it's not a fake name. It's their name. You seem to think that people have this single thing which is their name - that might be true in the US (I dunno) but it's not true in many other places. And because the US rules for changing names on documents are inconsistent a person may have a passport in one name but a driving licence in another.

Symbiote 11y ago
You could probably go further — at most only HR need to know an official name, probably with a note on the file reminding them that it's confidential. That need only be revealed once you're accepting the job offer. I have recently moved to Denmark, and several public or semi-public database systems have had special attention drawn to how my name might be used, and instructions to avoid certain uses. (For example, there seemed to be a special way to register in a municipality under an assumed name, to avoid stalkers etc.)
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
> You seem to think that people have this single thing which is their name - that might be true in the US (I dunno) but it's not true in many other places. Even people with one "real name" may have slight variations on it that they use. Many people use their nickname and don't show their middle name. If your name isn't written in Latin script, you might have the original script version and a romanised version, possibly even more than one romanised version. If you're Chinese, you might have a Western name alias which you're known by professionally.
pmlnr 11y ago
> And it's not a fake name. It's their name. You seem to think that people have this single thing which is their name - that might be true in the US (I dunno) but it's not true in many other places. Not according to the current laws. You may want to change the laws as well. ( No, I'm not cynical. )
- DanBC 11y ago
  What laws? In the UK I can us any name I like so long as I don't have the intent to deceive. WIkipedia says that's the case for the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_name#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_name#United_States > Most states in the United States follow the common law which permits name changing for non-fraudulent purposes. This is actually the most common method, since most women who marry do not petition a court under the statutorily prescribed method, but simply use a new name (typically the husband's, a custom which started under the theory of coverture where a woman lost her identity and most rights when she married).[2] Most state courts have held that a legally assumed name (i.e., for a non-fraudulent purpose) is a legal name and usable as their true name, though assumed names are often not considered the person's technically true name.[3] In the US the different rules for getting a name changed on official documents sometimes leaves people with official documents in different names, so even if you restrict yourself to documents issued by US government authorities a person can have two names.
  - tsotha 11y ago
    Yep. In my state to officially change your name all you have to do is start using the new name, though you'll end up putting both down on the "AKA" section of official documents.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

> They're not discriminating against GLBT+ people, they're discriminating against people using pseudonyms. Which disproportionately affects trans people.

nommm-nommm 11y ago

Serious question - What's a fake name? Plenty of people go by names that aren't the same as on their official government ID, even childhood nicknames. Your name is whatever people call you. There's no reason why future employers need to know your "legal" name on a job interview. When you get a job you need to fill out some HR forms and that's basically extent of it. Your coworkers/boss/clients/customers aren't obligated to address you by what is on your government issued ID. Probably half my office goes by something different than what's on their government IDs. Many childhood nicknames and many middle names. Even commonly used diminutives - Peggy for Margaret for example; JP for John Paul; Dick for Richard. If my legal name is Margaret Samathia Jones and I put Peggy Jones on my resume is that going by a fake name? You may have changed your name at marriage and are addressed by that name in personal circles but still are addressed as your birth name in a professional circles in order to better preserve your professional contacts. In plenty of professions it is extremely common to establish yourself professionally under a stage name or pen name or other types of "fake" names. Your legal name may be "cutesy" so you are addressed professionally by an assumed name.

pc86 11y ago
And nobody is having their Facebook account flagged for using "Peggy" instead of "Margaret," they're getting flagged for using "John TheSexMan Doe" instead of the "John Doe" or "Samantha Applebee" instead of "Mark Applebee." So it's a false comparison.
- nommm-nommm 11y ago
  Hardly. People are getting their facebook flagged for pen names, stage names, derby names, drag names, and other professional names. As well as names that are too common or not common enough, nicknames, and names that contain nouns, adjectives, or adverbs without regards to what shows up on their birth certificate. Not to mention Native American names or other "ethnic" or non-Anglo Saxon names or anything that looks "unusual" (such as, say, Picabo Street or Dick Trickle) Look, if you have established yourself professionally as The Edge being forced to use facebook as David Howell Evans obviously isn't desirable to you especially if you want to use facebook to promote your works or other professional activities. And who in the fuck cares if someone is using a feminine sounding name that appears to be masculine. Nobody (and I mean nobody) should be the gender police, seriously. I have a female friend who is named "Robert" anyways.