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The problem is that stoic people can suffer a serious social penalty to their interests and the cooperation they get from others. It's expected that, once you a

by Udo 11y ago

The problem is that stoic people can suffer a serious social penalty to their interests and the cooperation they get from others. It's expected that, once you are in a bad situation, you fight in an outwardly visible fashion. If you don't display the markers of frustration in an easily understandable way, people will think you just don't care enough. Meanwhile, there is little downside to histrionics and unreasonable demands, putting the stoic at a severe disadvantage.

tomhoward 11y ago
I know what you mean, having been through this journey and experienced the kind of thing you're talking about. But in the end, the calmness and tranquility that comes from removing yourself from the drama and histrionics of the rest of the world is its own victory, and any "social penalty" turns out to be quite a gift.
briancleland 11y ago
There is only a disadvantage if you place value in externals. The most important lesson in Stoicism is that only the things in our power are good or bad, whereas externals have no intrinsic value. "Wherefore, O judges, be of good cheer about death, and know this of a truth - that no evil can happen to a good man, either in life or after death." http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html
VLM 11y ago
There's a hidden assumption that signalling and belief have to be the same. If some weird signalling is just an annoying valueless externality, then acting (assuming its any good) isn't as relevant as the belief within. Maybe an analogy with politics, nobody really believes sloganeering except the smallest of minds; its merely a traditional weapon that has to be used as part of the show. Ditto obeisance to political correctness, its just signalling you gotta do in public, nobody believes that stuff internally or in private except a small cadre of insane people. "Emperor has no clothes" moment and all that.

by Udo 11y ago

tomhoward 11y ago

I know what you mean, having been through this journey and experienced the kind of thing you're talking about. But in the end, the calmness and tranquility that comes from removing yourself from the drama and histrionics of the rest of the world is its own victory, and any "social penalty" turns out to be quite a gift.

briancleland 11y ago

There is only a disadvantage if you place value in externals. The most important lesson in Stoicism is that only the things in our power are good or bad, whereas externals have no intrinsic value. "Wherefore, O judges, be of good cheer about death, and know this of a truth - that no evil can happen to a good man, either in life or after death." http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html

VLM 11y ago

There's a hidden assumption that signalling and belief have to be the same. If some weird signalling is just an annoying valueless externality, then acting (assuming its any good) isn't as relevant as the belief within. Maybe an analogy with politics, nobody really believes sloganeering except the smallest of minds; its merely a traditional weapon that has to be used as part of the show. Ditto obeisance to political correctness, its just signalling you gotta do in public, nobody believes that stuff internally or in private except a small cadre of insane people. "Emperor has no clothes" moment and all that.