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If hard working students fail a test, the failure is on the teacher, not the students. I highly doubt the majority of students at berkeley would be anything ot

If hard working students fail a test, the failure is on the teacher, not the students. I highly doubt the majority of students at berkeley would be anything other than hard working.

lzr_io 11y ago
Unfortunately, hard work is not always effective work. When you embark on a journey of learning, it is your own responsiblity to make sure that you learn effectively. Hard work alone does not justify any merits - you have to make it count.
- emp_zealoth 11y ago
  That is exactly the job of a teacher - to make sure you learn effectively.
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    How many of your teachers focused on efficient learning ? I can't remember one. Even the handful of teacher that left a deep trace in my memory never mentioned 'learning'. They were just so well aware of their subject, they could be the catalyst to bridge gaps in my view of things, triggering inspiration and desire.
    - chris_wot 11y ago
      There needs to be a desire in the student to learn, but the teacher must also be able to impart things clearly. Otherwise, why bother having teachers at all? Why not have everyone self-learn? Ironically, that's what I'm actually doing right now, but still it's good to get recorded lectures as this tends to really help fill in blanks.
      - agumonkey 11y ago
        I'm doing a lot of self studies too, and what I'm missing the most is a little peer pressure to focus and test, especially tests. That's why I personally enjoyed MOOCs since they provide that. My experience is doubly biased, I don't recall any teacher being really helping in learning as I said, but I went to college at a time I couldn't interact with them normally too.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  It should also be the responsibility of the teacher, however, to guide you towards effective learning techniques.
crimsonalucard 11y ago
Just to get into berkeley you have to be the cream of the crop or the best of the best. These students, in general, work hard and study effectively. When a test fails a majority of these types of students, you can't blame ineffective learning on students that represent the best of the best.
flashman 11y ago
There is a third option: the test is unfairly structured to reduce the number of people Berkeley can put through its PhD program. If Berkeley knows it cannot teach more than x students, yet it consistently enrols y students, then it could use a test to weed out y-x students (regardless of whether those students are capable of completing a PhD).

If hard working students fail a test, the failure is on the teacher, not the students. I highly doubt the majority of students at berkeley would be anything other than hard working.

lzr_io 11y ago

Unfortunately, hard work is not always effective work. When you embark on a journey of learning, it is your own responsiblity to make sure that you learn effectively. Hard work alone does not justify any merits - you have to make it count.

emp_zealoth 11y ago
That is exactly the job of a teacher - to make sure you learn effectively.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  How many of your teachers focused on efficient learning ? I can't remember one. Even the handful of teacher that left a deep trace in my memory never mentioned 'learning'. They were just so well aware of their subject, they could be the catalyst to bridge gaps in my view of things, triggering inspiration and desire.
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    There needs to be a desire in the student to learn, but the teacher must also be able to impart things clearly. Otherwise, why bother having teachers at all? Why not have everyone self-learn? Ironically, that's what I'm actually doing right now, but still it's good to get recorded lectures as this tends to really help fill in blanks.
    - agumonkey 11y ago
      I'm doing a lot of self studies too, and what I'm missing the most is a little peer pressure to focus and test, especially tests. That's why I personally enjoyed MOOCs since they provide that. My experience is doubly biased, I don't recall any teacher being really helping in learning as I said, but I went to college at a time I couldn't interact with them normally too.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
TeMPOraL 11y ago
It should also be the responsibility of the teacher, however, to guide you towards effective learning techniques.

crimsonalucard 11y ago

Just to get into berkeley you have to be the cream of the crop or the best of the best. These students, in general, work hard and study effectively. When a test fails a majority of these types of students, you can't blame ineffective learning on students that represent the best of the best.

flashman 11y ago

There is a third option: the test is unfairly structured to reduce the number of people Berkeley can put through its PhD program. If Berkeley knows it cannot teach more than x students, yet it consistently enrols y students, then it could use a test to weed out y-x students (regardless of whether those students are capable of completing a PhD).