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I am a software engineer, male, Asian. Somehow I can relate to the article. Although I was always one of the top students in math and science and enrolled the t

I am a software engineer, male, Asian. Somehow I can relate to the article. Although I was always one of the top students in math and science and enrolled the top university, I was both intimidated and kind of disgusted by the culture stereotypes at the beginning of my career. I had self doubts if I would ever become a good software engineer, since I was far from the stereotypes. Sometimes, I was deeply disgusted by the childishness and shallowness of the stereotypes. I rarely play video games. (I played some in college, simply for finding bugs and backdoors so that I could win easily, not for the fun of playing itself. After one year, it became boring and I stopped.) I don't like Star Wars. I am not in particular interested in Sci-fi. I think the time can be better spent in other books. For example, the non-technical books I just finished are Madame Bovary (translated by Lydia Davis. Highly recommend), On the Move (autobiography by Oliver Sacks). I am re-reading The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers. Also, I don't like beer. When I go out with colleagues, I drink wine or strong liquors. I can tell my colleagues what I like now, but it was different when I first joined the industry. I cram-watched all the Star Wars, most Star Treks, etc. I forced myself to finish some popular sci-fi novels. I drank beer when going out. It was like you are trying to fit yourself into a model that is not you. I still remember one scene during the first week of one job. All the engineers were playing Guitar Hero, loudly, when waiting for a push. They invited me, which I greatly appreciate. I said I didn't know how to play and I rarely played video games. They were astounded. One engineer said, "It is not a game. It is a life style."

duaneb 11y ago
So—first, empathy, I don't get video games at all. Second—this strikes me as fairly standard cultural shock. It's one thing to find yourself immersed in a culture, it's quite another to find that you have to immerse yourself in that culture to reach your teammates. This is an experience I have not encountered before; people have surprised me with the lengths they go to ensure a healthy diversity in company culture so that everyone feels like they have an opening to communicate. Why would you NOT want to get to know your teammate? If they have different interests, it's an opportunity, not a problem. That said.... sometimes you need to be the person to push for the cultural diversity, and unfortunately, that's not going to be easy for most people regardless of sex or industry. I would even imagine non-tech companies actually have a much worse case of this where EVERYONE feels alienated from their coworkers based on my personal experiences. It's complicated. But monocultures are certainly terrible teamwork oriented groups of people—I think we can all agree with that.
- meowface 11y ago
  Veering a bit off-topic: I used to get video games when I was younger, and played them obsessively, but around the age of 18, I almost completely lost interest. I occasionally will play online games with friends nowadays, but I do that more for the "hanging out with friends" enjoyment. The game is just a vehicle for that. I can't play a single-player game for more than 5 minutes without losing interest.
  - duaneb 11y ago
    Yea, it really stands out to me how much the narrative matters to me now as opposed to when I was younger, when it was all about gameplay. I get bored basically once I've figured out the controls and what the character does, etc. However. I really like playing Mario Kart in a group. But then it is more of a social thing, not a hobby.
- Kalium 11y ago
  > It's complicated. But monocultures are certainly terrible teamwork oriented groups of people—I think we can all agree with that. I don't know. That thought sounds kind of monocultural. So -- first, empathy. I've felt cultural shock. I've lived places and done things where many people around me lived lives that made no sense to me. Second -- that's not just a snarky one-liner. I'm suggesting that your notions, as explained, constitute a different kind of monoculture. You've gone up a meta-level. Instead of everyone having the same interests, you now expect everyone to have the same general attitudes. Don't you want people with different attitudes around? If you encounter someone with different attitudes, isn't that an opportunity to expand your mind and come to understand a different perspective?
  - duaneb 11y ago
    I think a monoculture with respect to opinions about monoculture would be just as bad, yes, but it's not a terrible rule of thumb to diversify culture. You definitely need to be surrounded by all types of people... including people like yourself.
- deleted 11y ago
geebee 11y ago
This is a really good post. I identify with a lot in it. I double majored in english literature and math, and I added the math late. I was very interested in CS and math (it wasn't a thing yet in the mid 90s but now they call my interests "data science"). Of course, aspirations about what life will be like when you "grow up" are always a bit of a naive fantasy, but I thought (or at least hoped) that I would be able to join a more urbane, sophisticated, adult world at some point. That may sound a bit naive, but there's nothing wrong with aspiring to it. When I joined the tech working world, I was disappointed that my office manager seems to think that a foosball table and video game machine turn fit into some kind of nirvana, or that my office went to dave n busters for a retreat… it's not that I can't enjoy it, I can, but I heard about the retreats friends in law firms were taking, and I was envious of how much more sophisticated, adult and grown up it all sounded). I don't mean to sound like I'm putting life in a law firm as all roses, I am absolutely aware that it isn't, but I was envious that they seemed to have joined an adult world whereas tech seemed to be a relatively immature, almost extended adolescent culture. Unfortunately, over time, I've slowly started to believe there may be something more insidious in the juvenility of tech culture, and that it may be imposed as much from the outside as the inside. I'm not sure the people who hire programmers really want to view them as adults. More like minions, talented but immature young men rotating through, happy with their video games and foosball tables and salaries that pay well enough to enjoy a delayed adolescence but never enough to put down roots and raise a family where they live and work… ultimately, I think this is damaging and may very well deter a lot of potentially talented people from entering the field, or cause others to leave.
- galtwho 11y ago
  >> I'm not sure the people who hire programmers really want to view them as adults. More like minions, talented but immature young men rotating through, happy with their video games and foosball tables and salaries that pay well enough to enjoy a delayed adolescence but never enough to put down roots and raise a family where they live and work… I have seen this attitude several times and these guys are selling the products/services produced by such minions for real market value while the minions think they have hot the jackpot with the video game consoles. I keep telling such folk to charge top dollar and f&^*ing donate the unwanted money to charity or a struggling video game startup..

duaneb 11y ago

So—first, empathy, I don't get video games at all. Second—this strikes me as fairly standard cultural shock. It's one thing to find yourself immersed in a culture, it's quite another to find that you have to immerse yourself in that culture to reach your teammates. This is an experience I have not encountered before; people have surprised me with the lengths they go to ensure a healthy diversity in company culture so that everyone feels like they have an opening to communicate. Why would you NOT want to get to know your teammate? If they have different interests, it's an opportunity, not a problem. That said.... sometimes you need to be the person to push for the cultural diversity, and unfortunately, that's not going to be easy for most people regardless of sex or industry. I would even imagine non-tech companies actually have a much worse case of this where EVERYONE feels alienated from their coworkers based on my personal experiences. It's complicated. But monocultures are certainly terrible teamwork oriented groups of people—I think we can all agree with that.

meowface 11y ago
Veering a bit off-topic: I used to get video games when I was younger, and played them obsessively, but around the age of 18, I almost completely lost interest. I occasionally will play online games with friends nowadays, but I do that more for the "hanging out with friends" enjoyment. The game is just a vehicle for that. I can't play a single-player game for more than 5 minutes without losing interest.
- duaneb 11y ago
  Yea, it really stands out to me how much the narrative matters to me now as opposed to when I was younger, when it was all about gameplay. I get bored basically once I've figured out the controls and what the character does, etc. However. I really like playing Mario Kart in a group. But then it is more of a social thing, not a hobby.
Kalium 11y ago
> It's complicated. But monocultures are certainly terrible teamwork oriented groups of people—I think we can all agree with that. I don't know. That thought sounds kind of monocultural. So -- first, empathy. I've felt cultural shock. I've lived places and done things where many people around me lived lives that made no sense to me. Second -- that's not just a snarky one-liner. I'm suggesting that your notions, as explained, constitute a different kind of monoculture. You've gone up a meta-level. Instead of everyone having the same interests, you now expect everyone to have the same general attitudes. Don't you want people with different attitudes around? If you encounter someone with different attitudes, isn't that an opportunity to expand your mind and come to understand a different perspective?
- duaneb 11y ago
  I think a monoculture with respect to opinions about monoculture would be just as bad, yes, but it's not a terrible rule of thumb to diversify culture. You definitely need to be surrounded by all types of people... including people like yourself.
deleted 11y ago

geebee 11y ago

This is a really good post. I identify with a lot in it. I double majored in english literature and math, and I added the math late. I was very interested in CS and math (it wasn't a thing yet in the mid 90s but now they call my interests "data science"). Of course, aspirations about what life will be like when you "grow up" are always a bit of a naive fantasy, but I thought (or at least hoped) that I would be able to join a more urbane, sophisticated, adult world at some point. That may sound a bit naive, but there's nothing wrong with aspiring to it. When I joined the tech working world, I was disappointed that my office manager seems to think that a foosball table and video game machine turn fit into some kind of nirvana, or that my office went to dave n busters for a retreat… it's not that I can't enjoy it, I can, but I heard about the retreats friends in law firms were taking, and I was envious of how much more sophisticated, adult and grown up it all sounded). I don't mean to sound like I'm putting life in a law firm as all roses, I am absolutely aware that it isn't, but I was envious that they seemed to have joined an adult world whereas tech seemed to be a relatively immature, almost extended adolescent culture. Unfortunately, over time, I've slowly started to believe there may be something more insidious in the juvenility of tech culture, and that it may be imposed as much from the outside as the inside. I'm not sure the people who hire programmers really want to view them as adults. More like minions, talented but immature young men rotating through, happy with their video games and foosball tables and salaries that pay well enough to enjoy a delayed adolescence but never enough to put down roots and raise a family where they live and work… ultimately, I think this is damaging and may very well deter a lot of potentially talented people from entering the field, or cause others to leave.

galtwho 11y ago
>> I'm not sure the people who hire programmers really want to view them as adults. More like minions, talented but immature young men rotating through, happy with their video games and foosball tables and salaries that pay well enough to enjoy a delayed adolescence but never enough to put down roots and raise a family where they live and work… I have seen this attitude several times and these guys are selling the products/services produced by such minions for real market value while the minions think they have hot the jackpot with the video game consoles. I keep telling such folk to charge top dollar and f&^*ing donate the unwanted money to charity or a struggling video game startup..