6 ms·

The majority of college students are female. Most prisoners are male. Most homeless people are male. If we take it as a given that any group being under- or ove

by pkinsky 11y ago

The majority of college students are female. Most prisoners are male. Most homeless people are male. If we take it as a given that any group being under- or overrepresented in some category is a violation of the social contract, maybe we should start by fixing these glaring injustices.

paulddraper 11y ago
But those are different. Those favor females.
- howeyc 11y ago
  You're also not supposed to point out such advantages. You'll be ostracized and placed into "male rights" sub group which has very negative connotations in general society. Tread lightly.
  - sridca 11y ago
    > Tread lightly. As long as you dispassionately and sensibly point out the injustice being done in the name of justice, what is the problem? The biggest issue now seems to be men not speaking up against their detractors. On the lighter side: "Women are constantly patting themselves on the back for how difficult their lives are and no one corrects them because they want to fuck 'em." – Bill Burr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJrMaFlxOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJrMaFlxOk
    - maxcan 11y ago
      I don't think the comment meant that dispassionately and sensibly pointing out the double standard is problematic but that one runs the risk of facing a large, internet backlash for pointing out certain classes of double standards of which the one above is one.
      - sridca 11y ago
        Let me rephrase what I said for clarity: the biggest issue now seems to be men not speaking up against their detractors for fear of being ostracized, of being labelled a member of a group with negative connotations, of facing a large internet backlash.
        maxcan 11y ago
        In which case, I absolutely agree. I've made the mistake of sharing my thoughts on these issues before. "But once you’ve won a culture war, free speech is a nuisance, and “eliminating” language becomes a necessity." - http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/thats-not-funny/399335/?utm_source=SFTwitter http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/thats-no...
        sridca 11y ago
        So coming back to what I said - as long as you dispassionately and sensibly point out the injustice being done in the name of justice, what is the problem? Our fear is what makes the SJW shaming tactics effective. Men -- men in tech in particular -- gotta buckle up and speak frankly. Learn to stand up for themselves, without letting other people -- women in particular -- control their every thought.
bduerst 11y ago
>glaring injustices Kind of a false dichotomy. The APA has found that men are more likely to become substance abusers, which is linked to homelessness and conviction rates. Why not help both men and women? Why does one need to be first?
- pkinsky 11y ago
  > Why not help both men and women? Why does one need to be first? I'm not arguing that we should or should not help some group. I just think that if every instance of disparate impact is assumed to be solely due to discrimination, then we also need to start treating homelessness and the prison-industrial complex as gendered issues disproportionately affecting men. > The APA has found that men are more likely to become substance abusers, which is linked to homelessness and conviction rates. One could (tongue firmly in cheek) argue that this is due to implicit anti-male biases in society.
  - bduerst 11y ago
    It is - in fact, the preexisting ideas of masculinity is a bias that makes men feel that they don't need to seek help when they really need it [1], which can lead to self medication and substance abuse. That was the point - that these gender biases exist for both sexes and need to be addressed at the same time (not one before the other). [1] http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun05/helping.aspx http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun05/helping.aspx
- Kalium 11y ago
  > Why not help both men and women? Why does one need to be first? Because whenever there are limited resources available to help people, there's going to be a need-off to decide who takes priority. A lot of politics flows from this. This is why you will often find lots of jockeying for position and heartstring-pulling from nonprofits and NGOs. If you don't do well enough in the need-off, you might not get any resources.

by pkinsky 11y ago

paulddraper 11y ago

But those are different. Those favor females.

howeyc 11y ago
You're also not supposed to point out such advantages. You'll be ostracized and placed into "male rights" sub group which has very negative connotations in general society. Tread lightly.
- sridca 11y ago
  > Tread lightly. As long as you dispassionately and sensibly point out the injustice being done in the name of justice, what is the problem? The biggest issue now seems to be men not speaking up against their detractors. On the lighter side: "Women are constantly patting themselves on the back for how difficult their lives are and no one corrects them because they want to fuck 'em." – Bill Burr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJrMaFlxOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJrMaFlxOk
  - maxcan 11y ago
    I don't think the comment meant that dispassionately and sensibly pointing out the double standard is problematic but that one runs the risk of facing a large, internet backlash for pointing out certain classes of double standards of which the one above is one.
    - sridca 11y ago
      Let me rephrase what I said for clarity: the biggest issue now seems to be men not speaking up against their detractors for fear of being ostracized, of being labelled a member of a group with negative connotations, of facing a large internet backlash.
      - maxcan 11y ago
        In which case, I absolutely agree. I've made the mistake of sharing my thoughts on these issues before. "But once you’ve won a culture war, free speech is a nuisance, and “eliminating” language becomes a necessity." - http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/thats-not-funny/399335/?utm_source=SFTwitter http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/thats-no...
        sridca 11y ago
        So coming back to what I said - as long as you dispassionately and sensibly point out the injustice being done in the name of justice, what is the problem? Our fear is what makes the SJW shaming tactics effective. Men -- men in tech in particular -- gotta buckle up and speak frankly. Learn to stand up for themselves, without letting other people -- women in particular -- control their every thought.

bduerst 11y ago

>glaring injustices Kind of a false dichotomy. The APA has found that men are more likely to become substance abusers, which is linked to homelessness and conviction rates. Why not help both men and women? Why does one need to be first?

pkinsky 11y ago
> Why not help both men and women? Why does one need to be first? I'm not arguing that we should or should not help some group. I just think that if every instance of disparate impact is assumed to be solely due to discrimination, then we also need to start treating homelessness and the prison-industrial complex as gendered issues disproportionately affecting men. > The APA has found that men are more likely to become substance abusers, which is linked to homelessness and conviction rates. One could (tongue firmly in cheek) argue that this is due to implicit anti-male biases in society.
- bduerst 11y ago
  It is - in fact, the preexisting ideas of masculinity is a bias that makes men feel that they don't need to seek help when they really need it [1], which can lead to self medication and substance abuse. That was the point - that these gender biases exist for both sexes and need to be addressed at the same time (not one before the other). [1] http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun05/helping.aspx http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun05/helping.aspx
Kalium 11y ago
> Why not help both men and women? Why does one need to be first? Because whenever there are limited resources available to help people, there's going to be a need-off to decide who takes priority. A lot of politics flows from this. This is why you will often find lots of jockeying for position and heartstring-pulling from nonprofits and NGOs. If you don't do well enough in the need-off, you might not get any resources.