3 ms·

If I understand your parable correctly, you're suggesting that men deliberately mock and reject women trying to enter the field. In my experience, nothing could

If I understand your parable correctly, you're suggesting that men deliberately mock and reject women trying to enter the field. In my experience, nothing could be further from the truth. I have never, not once, witnessed the behavior you describe. I've seen nothing but welcoming behavior toward everyone who wants to learn software. Even among proponents of the systemic discrimination theory, the consensus these days seems to be that bias must be subconscious, since overt bias is practically extinct in the wild.

solofounder2 11y ago
I suspect a more realistic scenario is that it's the other girls who do the mocking and rejecting as a reaction to one person's interest in computer science.. that's the thing. the question then becomes.. why does the little girl care what the other little girls think ? Why isn't she more than happy hanging out with the more open and accepting group of computer cherishing boys ? I assume it has to do with social norms, early childhood developmental experiences, not wanting to break certain social guidelines passed down through family values, the anticipation of "dating"..
ashworth 11y ago
What??? My childhood best friend and college roommate shocked me by calling one of our CS classmates a "huge bitch" for not going on a date with him after they had lunch together our first week of college. I've lost track of how many sexist lines I've heard, like: "make me a sammich bitch, haha", "don't be an emo bitch about it, haha", "if we don't let people freely express themselves on the CS listserv, then this is a tyrannical school that has been ruined by feminists (this one after of course, a guy posted a several page rant about why women are bitches, 'haha')". Also, let me tell you this story of two friends I knew who applied at a certain internet start-up on Market Street in San Francisco in 2014: A was male, 21 years old, a stoner and business school drop-out with a portfolio consisting of a Java tower defense game. B was female, 30 years old, with several years experience doing QA on computer peripheral drivers who had re-trained herself as a web developer and had a Rails StackOverflow clone and a Meteor KhanAcademy clone for her portfolio. A got offered a six-figure full time position. B got offered an internship. Final point, I've seen so much elitist and arrogant behavior from MEN directed towards OTHER MEN. Nothing could be further from the truth than software being completely welcoming. Of course it's still a very good industry overall; it's by no means the worst.
- rewqfdsa 11y ago
  > bitch Unfortunately, that's how college kids talk. I wish they wouldn't be so crude, but the language isn't CS-specific. That women in general are doing so well in college in general relative to men suggests crude language on the part of college men is not a serious problem. In the professional world, that kind of denigration would be completely unacceptable. > Also, let me tell you this story of two friends I knew who applied at a certain internet start-up on Market Street in San Francisco in 2014 I don't think it's reasonable to generalize from this anecdote. Maybe he aced his interviews and she flubbed them.
  - hackuser 11y ago
    > that's how college kids talk That wasn't my experience at all. That kind of attitude or language would have been taboo.
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      Would have been but no longer is. Unfortunately, it is really the standard language of today's youth.
- solofounder2 11y ago
  > "emo bitch" "that guy was kind of a dick" is an offhand comment that just means "rude" or "jerk" and you hear it all the time from college age women when referencing the slightest deviations from their standards of behavior. It refers to the male genitalia in a negative connotation and is terefor far more explicit than the dog word.
  - ashworth 11y ago
    It sounds like you're trolling, but if you aren't: 1. One wrong does not make another wrong right. 2. "Dick" is used as an offhand comment usually because it is considered less offensive than other words with the same meaning, like "asshole" or "piece of shit". 3. I agree that women treat men badly as well. People suck. 4. Imagine your daughter or mother being called an "emo bitch" because they reacted angrily to an insult. Would you tell her "well at least they didn't explicitly insult your genitalia?"

solofounder2 11y ago

I suspect a more realistic scenario is that it's the other girls who do the mocking and rejecting as a reaction to one person's interest in computer science.. that's the thing. the question then becomes.. why does the little girl care what the other little girls think ? Why isn't she more than happy hanging out with the more open and accepting group of computer cherishing boys ? I assume it has to do with social norms, early childhood developmental experiences, not wanting to break certain social guidelines passed down through family values, the anticipation of "dating"..

ashworth 11y ago

What??? My childhood best friend and college roommate shocked me by calling one of our CS classmates a "huge bitch" for not going on a date with him after they had lunch together our first week of college. I've lost track of how many sexist lines I've heard, like: "make me a sammich bitch, haha", "don't be an emo bitch about it, haha", "if we don't let people freely express themselves on the CS listserv, then this is a tyrannical school that has been ruined by feminists (this one after of course, a guy posted a several page rant about why women are bitches, 'haha')". Also, let me tell you this story of two friends I knew who applied at a certain internet start-up on Market Street in San Francisco in 2014: A was male, 21 years old, a stoner and business school drop-out with a portfolio consisting of a Java tower defense game. B was female, 30 years old, with several years experience doing QA on computer peripheral drivers who had re-trained herself as a web developer and had a Rails StackOverflow clone and a Meteor KhanAcademy clone for her portfolio. A got offered a six-figure full time position. B got offered an internship. Final point, I've seen so much elitist and arrogant behavior from MEN directed towards OTHER MEN. Nothing could be further from the truth than software being completely welcoming. Of course it's still a very good industry overall; it's by no means the worst.

rewqfdsa 11y ago
> bitch Unfortunately, that's how college kids talk. I wish they wouldn't be so crude, but the language isn't CS-specific. That women in general are doing so well in college in general relative to men suggests crude language on the part of college men is not a serious problem. In the professional world, that kind of denigration would be completely unacceptable. > Also, let me tell you this story of two friends I knew who applied at a certain internet start-up on Market Street in San Francisco in 2014 I don't think it's reasonable to generalize from this anecdote. Maybe he aced his interviews and she flubbed them.
- hackuser 11y ago
  > that's how college kids talk That wasn't my experience at all. That kind of attitude or language would have been taboo.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Would have been but no longer is. Unfortunately, it is really the standard language of today's youth.
solofounder2 11y ago
> "emo bitch" "that guy was kind of a dick" is an offhand comment that just means "rude" or "jerk" and you hear it all the time from college age women when referencing the slightest deviations from their standards of behavior. It refers to the male genitalia in a negative connotation and is terefor far more explicit than the dog word.
- ashworth 11y ago
  It sounds like you're trolling, but if you aren't: 1. One wrong does not make another wrong right. 2. "Dick" is used as an offhand comment usually because it is considered less offensive than other words with the same meaning, like "asshole" or "piece of shit". 3. I agree that women treat men badly as well. People suck. 4. Imagine your daughter or mother being called an "emo bitch" because they reacted angrily to an insult. Would you tell her "well at least they didn't explicitly insult your genitalia?"