4 ms·

This article isn't talking about taking away "exclusive access to jobs" from men. It's hinting at separating geek culture from software development. Let's be ho

This article isn't talking about taking away "exclusive access to jobs" from men. It's hinting at separating geek culture from software development. Let's be honest: the two interests correlate well. You're talking about stripping many practitioners of software development from their culture. Why is that just?

zamalek 11y ago
> You're talking about stripping many practitioners of software development from their culture. Where did you get that from? I was merely attempting a theory (not excusing) on why these people act they do toward equality.
rayiner 11y ago
> You're talking about stripping many practitioners of software development from their culture. Why is that just? Why is it unjust? Why do you have to bring your personal interests and preferences into the workplace? Why not make a neutral workplace where different kinds of people can integrate and feel comfortable?
- rewqfdsa 11y ago
  You're advocating for sterile, culture-less workplaces. You're free to do that, and companies are free to implement your proposed policies. Personally, I wouldn't work for a company that prohibited my expressing nerd culture.
  - rayiner 11y ago
    Yes, I am. I think work places should be neutral places where the focus is on work. I'm a professional--I don't need to bond with my teammates over unrelated bullshit in order to work effectively with them.
    - rewqfdsa 11y ago
      I think sharing culture can create an esprit de corps, improving morale and group cohesion, especially in times of crisis.
      - rayiner 11y ago
        Why can't the shared culture be a mutual commitment to high-quality work? Let me put it another way: do you want to spend all day hearing about my toddler? If not--well that's how I feel about everything you're interested in. So let's just all do our work and leave our personal lives at home.
        wtbob 11y ago
        > Why can't the shared culture be a mutual commitment to high-quality work? Because that's not how human beings bond. We don't bond over a single facet of our lives; we bond as a community. The modern world, in which we live different places, believe different things and pursue different jobs, is poison for any sense of community.
        tptacek 11y ago
        A group of middle-class white guys will bond more quickly and easily than a group that mixes white guys and low-income black women. So where do you draw the line? It's clearly not OK, even in the name of "cohesion", to encourage a culture that excludes people of different income levels or ethnicities.
      - tptacek 11y ago
        That's an argument that gets you a team of people who all like the same video games and all pick which beer to drink by maximizing IBUs. There's a point at which can safely say that this kind of studiously groomed, exclusionary "cohesion" is doing more harm than good. I mean, there's obviously that point: if you refused to hire someone because they were a woman, you'd get sued; if you refused to hire someone because they didn't drink, you'd (rightfully) be ostracized in the community.

zamalek 11y ago

> You're talking about stripping many practitioners of software development from their culture. Where did you get that from? I was merely attempting a theory (not excusing) on why these people act they do toward equality.

rayiner 11y ago

> You're talking about stripping many practitioners of software development from their culture. Why is that just? Why is it unjust? Why do you have to bring your personal interests and preferences into the workplace? Why not make a neutral workplace where different kinds of people can integrate and feel comfortable?

rewqfdsa 11y ago
You're advocating for sterile, culture-less workplaces. You're free to do that, and companies are free to implement your proposed policies. Personally, I wouldn't work for a company that prohibited my expressing nerd culture.
- rayiner 11y ago
  Yes, I am. I think work places should be neutral places where the focus is on work. I'm a professional--I don't need to bond with my teammates over unrelated bullshit in order to work effectively with them.
  - rewqfdsa 11y ago
    I think sharing culture can create an esprit de corps, improving morale and group cohesion, especially in times of crisis.
    - rayiner 11y ago
      Why can't the shared culture be a mutual commitment to high-quality work? Let me put it another way: do you want to spend all day hearing about my toddler? If not--well that's how I feel about everything you're interested in. So let's just all do our work and leave our personal lives at home.
      - wtbob 11y ago
        > Why can't the shared culture be a mutual commitment to high-quality work? Because that's not how human beings bond. We don't bond over a single facet of our lives; we bond as a community. The modern world, in which we live different places, believe different things and pursue different jobs, is poison for any sense of community.
        tptacek 11y ago
        A group of middle-class white guys will bond more quickly and easily than a group that mixes white guys and low-income black women. So where do you draw the line? It's clearly not OK, even in the name of "cohesion", to encourage a culture that excludes people of different income levels or ethnicities.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      That's an argument that gets you a team of people who all like the same video games and all pick which beer to drink by maximizing IBUs. There's a point at which can safely say that this kind of studiously groomed, exclusionary "cohesion" is doing more harm than good. I mean, there's obviously that point: if you refused to hire someone because they were a woman, you'd get sued; if you refused to hire someone because they didn't drink, you'd (rightfully) be ostracized in the community.