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I see this as an echo of the makers and takers debate. "Give me a job." "MAKE me feel comfortable." "I am at your mercy." ... This the subtext I read. Other pe

I see this as an echo of the makers and takers debate. "Give me a job." "MAKE me feel comfortable." "I am at your mercy." ... This the subtext I read. Other people want to create their own world; when someone tells them no or gets in their way, the attitude is "fuck you" not "change to accommodate me." This reaction may be biologically ingrained as a difference in the sexes; I am not sure- But I rarely, if ever, come across articles about women who have been fed up with some job and formed their own companies with other fed up women and strove to put their former coworkers/employers out of business, whereas for hackers "I'll show you!" seems a very common motivator. We should be trying to give women (and men) more confidence, integrity and fortitude, and quit with the shaming and guilt tactics.

Itaxpica 11y ago
http://www.tableflip.club/ http://www.tableflip.club/
- ElComradio 11y ago
  That's the right attitude. Of course, once their companies grows to a certain size they will be forced by law to diversify their workforce and then they are back in the same situation. Not the case? Then this problem isn't as endemic as it's being portrayed.
pgeorgi 11y ago
> But I rarely, if ever, come across articles about women who have been fed up with some job and formed their own companies with other fed up women and strove to put their former coworkers/employers out of business http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-... It wasn't in IT, but it happened for many of the same reasons as stated here. The outcome is just one of several possibilities, and the media field may be more prone to have divas (although IT has too many divas of all sexes, IMHO), so I'm curious how the tableflip subculture will fare (hopefully much better).
- ElComradio 11y ago
  This is the thing, though. We are being told that it's just crappy for women in tech; we should be seeing female web devs, mobile devs, devops, product people, etc. banding together and doing things Their Way, and reading a bunch of glowing articles about how much better things are now, and how that creepy old boss who stared at their boobs a lot wishes he was nicer, and that kind of thing. I am unaware of an example of this actually happening, so it makes me very skeptical this is as big of a problem as we are being told.

Itaxpica 11y ago

http://www.tableflip.club/ http://www.tableflip.club/

ElComradio 11y ago
That's the right attitude. Of course, once their companies grows to a certain size they will be forced by law to diversify their workforce and then they are back in the same situation. Not the case? Then this problem isn't as endemic as it's being portrayed.

pgeorgi 11y ago

> But I rarely, if ever, come across articles about women who have been fed up with some job and formed their own companies with other fed up women and strove to put their former coworkers/employers out of business http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-... It wasn't in IT, but it happened for many of the same reasons as stated here. The outcome is just one of several possibilities, and the media field may be more prone to have divas (although IT has too many divas of all sexes, IMHO), so I'm curious how the tableflip subculture will fare (hopefully much better).

ElComradio 11y ago
This is the thing, though. We are being told that it's just crappy for women in tech; we should be seeing female web devs, mobile devs, devops, product people, etc. banding together and doing things Their Way, and reading a bunch of glowing articles about how much better things are now, and how that creepy old boss who stared at their boobs a lot wishes he was nicer, and that kind of thing. I am unaware of an example of this actually happening, so it makes me very skeptical this is as big of a problem as we are being told.