6 ms·

Is Diet-Induced Alzheimer’s Disease Type 3 Diabetes?

57 points by fasteo 11y ago

0xcde4c3db 11y ago
Is diet-induced (or even diet-associated) Alzheimer's Disease a proven phenomenon in the first place? The article seems to be pretty speculative on the whole thing, and I'm under the impression that the research on lifestyle risk factors is quite inconclusive (e.g. risk factors show up in ecological studies but produce no significant difference in controlled intervention trials).
- voidlogic 11y ago
  >I'm under the impression that the research on lifestyle risk factors is quite inconclusive Alzheimer's Disease Is Type 3 Diabetes–Evidence Reviewed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/ Conclusions: "Altogether, the results from these studies provide strong evidence in support of the hypothesis that AD represents a form of diabetes mellitus that selectively afflicts the brain."
  - 0xcde4c3db 11y ago
    This seems to be a much better source than the article, but I don't think it's actually claiming to show any clear connection to diet. A high-fat diet is mentioned in the description of a mouse model of type 2 diabetes (which the authors then seem to say didn't actually serve as a good Alzheimer's model), but I don't see the authors actually making a direct case for dietary influence. The article, by contrast, has a headline worded as though diet-induced Alzheimer's disease is an established phenomenon and the type 3 diabetes hypothesis is a proposed explanation of that phenomenon.
- rhinoceraptor 11y ago
  There is evidence of the neuroprotective effects of a ketogenic diet (low carb, moderate protein, very high fat) [1][2]. The original formulation of the ketogenic diet was for epilepsy, after all [3]. The dogma for decades has been that the brain needs glucose to function. A highly simplified and inaccurate explanation of Alzheimer's is that the brain has diminished capacity to use glucose. Luckily, the body has an alternate fuel source: ketones. The problem is most people never enter ketosis, where the body is depleted of glycogen and resorts to converting fat to ketone bodies. [1]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/ [2]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826507/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826507/ [3]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4133288/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4133288/
  - gavazzy 11y ago
    Blindly encouraging a ketogenic diet can actually be damaging. While the average person slightly benefits from a high-fat, low-carb diet, a small group of people (who have the APOE4 allele) are unable to properly digest fat and thus are greatly harmed by it. Similarly, light alcohol consumption seems to slightly benefit the majority of people. But, for those with APOE4, it causes significant harm. So, tonic for one group is toxic to another. It is far better if Alzheimer's treatment is prescribed on a case-by-case basis, based on genetic, environmental, and familial factors. This maximizes the outcomes for all, and not just the average.
    - mrfusion 11y ago
      Do you have sources for those? I've never heard that.
    - mrfusion 11y ago
      So you think apoe4's should eat a high carb diet?
      - gavazzy 11y ago
        Not necessarily high in sugar, since the insulin causes just as much damage as high fat. But a lower-fat diet would be beneficial
    - einarvollset 11y ago
      You seem to have those the exact wrong way around, or? I have never heard any evidence that people with APOE mutations are "greatly harmed" by eating a ketogenic diet. Link? Ditto for alcohol.
      - gavazzy 11y ago
        My original post is correct. APOE 4/4 is sensitive to dietary fat; high fat diets cause large LDL [0]. Further, fat causes atherosclerosis in APOE 4/4 individuals more quickly than others [1]. It would make sense that APOE 4/4 would have this effect, because it is the "defective" form of APOE. Individuals with APOE 4/4 do not clear oxidized fats from the brain as quickly as APOE 2 or 3 individuals. [0] http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/10/2517.full http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/10/2517.full [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674716/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674716/
fallous 11y ago
I'm willing to consider that Alzheimer's Disease may be affected by diet, but this article seems awfully slim on real data and in one instance seems to diverge from actual experimental results. They claim that Type-2 diabetes and AD are "exacerbated by high fat diets", but the link with regards to the diabetes study specifies diet-induced obesity, not "high fat" diet. Dietary fat has much less effect on blood glucose levels than carbohydrates, so insulin's role is markedly decreased.
- atomical 11y ago
  A steak causes the release of as much insulin as pure sugar. Also, http://nutritionfacts.org/video/lipotoxicity-how-saturated-fat-raises-blood-sugar/ http://nutritionfacts.org/video/lipotoxicity-how-saturated-f...
rhondapatrick 11y ago
It's really important to not forget the genetic factors at play in Alzheimer's. Between 65-80% of all Alzheimer's patients have at least one genetic version of the ApoE4 allele, a genotype found in around 25% of the population [1]. ApoE is made in astrocytes and is involved in cholesterol transport to neurons and in repairing damage done to neurons that occurs with normal aging. That isn't to say there isn't a dietary link or that critical lifestyle factors don't interact with these genetics, however! Insulin resistance leads to inflammation (which has been shown to accelerate brain aging) and may be one way in which type 2 diabetes is linked with Alzheimer's. I think calling Alzheimer's disease "type 3 diabetes" may be a somewhat dramatic oversimplification and a bit misleading, though, since the mechanism would be a bit more general (in this case). [1]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21787325 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21787325
rubyfan 11y ago
Anyone have a mirror? Link seems down.
tiatia 11y ago
[Linked Page seems to be down] I once read tha claim that wheat causes Alzheimer's. The idea that Alzheimer is Type 3 diabetes it not new. I also remember a paper which claimed that nasal applied insulin improves Alzheimer symptoms. Assuming that Alzheimer could be a type of diabetes and taken into account a connection between Diabetes I and Celiac disease, the idea that Wheat consumption could trigger Alzheimer is not absurd.
linkydinkandyou 11y ago
We need to start holding people accountable for self-induced disease. Perhaps with taxes: tax the obese. However, even the people who think that "Alzheimer's" is "Type-3" diabetes don't believe that all senile dementia is "Type 3 Diabetes" or is diet-induced. Just certain types of it. But being obese is so unhealthy, and so easy to control (just eat LESS) that to not hold people accountable for it is not good or just.
- michaelpinto 11y ago
  Genetics plays a role in obesity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_of_obesity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_of_obesity You can also be thin and have a bad diet, and while you may not be obese your internal systems can still be suffering from damage over the long run. Something that should be noted: Many folks who are poor don't have access to high quality foods. So they can buy soda but not a salad. And what determines what makes those foods cheap or expensive are often driven by industry lobbying. So much so that when there was attempt to tax soda in NYC there was a great deal of money spent to stop that from going into effect.
  - linkydinkandyou 11y ago
    You can buy water for even less than a soda. Here's what the left-leaning NPR says about Food Deserts and poor people's access to food. http://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132076786/the-root-the-myth-of-the-food-desert http://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132076786/the-root-the-myth-of... And here's the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of-food-deserts-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of... And here's the progressive magazine Slate: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2014/02/food_deserts_and_fresh_food_access_aren_t_the_problem_poverty_not_obesity.html http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2014/02/food_deserts...

57 points by fasteo 11y ago

Is diet-induced (or even diet-associated) Alzheimer's Disease a proven phenomenon in the first place? The article seems to be pretty speculative on the whole thing, and I'm under the impression that the research on lifestyle risk factors is quite inconclusive (e.g. risk factors show up in ecological studies but produce no significant difference in controlled intervention trials).

voidlogic 11y ago
>I'm under the impression that the research on lifestyle risk factors is quite inconclusive Alzheimer's Disease Is Type 3 Diabetes–Evidence Reviewed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/ Conclusions: "Altogether, the results from these studies provide strong evidence in support of the hypothesis that AD represents a form of diabetes mellitus that selectively afflicts the brain."
- 0xcde4c3db 11y ago
  This seems to be a much better source than the article, but I don't think it's actually claiming to show any clear connection to diet. A high-fat diet is mentioned in the description of a mouse model of type 2 diabetes (which the authors then seem to say didn't actually serve as a good Alzheimer's model), but I don't see the authors actually making a direct case for dietary influence. The article, by contrast, has a headline worded as though diet-induced Alzheimer's disease is an established phenomenon and the type 3 diabetes hypothesis is a proposed explanation of that phenomenon.
rhinoceraptor 11y ago
There is evidence of the neuroprotective effects of a ketogenic diet (low carb, moderate protein, very high fat) [1][2]. The original formulation of the ketogenic diet was for epilepsy, after all [3]. The dogma for decades has been that the brain needs glucose to function. A highly simplified and inaccurate explanation of Alzheimer's is that the brain has diminished capacity to use glucose. Luckily, the body has an alternate fuel source: ketones. The problem is most people never enter ketosis, where the body is depleted of glycogen and resorts to converting fat to ketone bodies. [1]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/ [2]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826507/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826507/ [3]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4133288/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4133288/
- gavazzy 11y ago
  Blindly encouraging a ketogenic diet can actually be damaging. While the average person slightly benefits from a high-fat, low-carb diet, a small group of people (who have the APOE4 allele) are unable to properly digest fat and thus are greatly harmed by it. Similarly, light alcohol consumption seems to slightly benefit the majority of people. But, for those with APOE4, it causes significant harm. So, tonic for one group is toxic to another. It is far better if Alzheimer's treatment is prescribed on a case-by-case basis, based on genetic, environmental, and familial factors. This maximizes the outcomes for all, and not just the average.
  - mrfusion 11y ago
    Do you have sources for those? I've never heard that.
  - mrfusion 11y ago
    So you think apoe4's should eat a high carb diet?
    - gavazzy 11y ago
      Not necessarily high in sugar, since the insulin causes just as much damage as high fat. But a lower-fat diet would be beneficial
  - einarvollset 11y ago
    You seem to have those the exact wrong way around, or? I have never heard any evidence that people with APOE mutations are "greatly harmed" by eating a ketogenic diet. Link? Ditto for alcohol.
    - gavazzy 11y ago
      My original post is correct. APOE 4/4 is sensitive to dietary fat; high fat diets cause large LDL [0]. Further, fat causes atherosclerosis in APOE 4/4 individuals more quickly than others [1]. It would make sense that APOE 4/4 would have this effect, because it is the "defective" form of APOE. Individuals with APOE 4/4 do not clear oxidized fats from the brain as quickly as APOE 2 or 3 individuals. [0] http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/10/2517.full http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/10/2517.full [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674716/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674716/

fallous 11y ago

I'm willing to consider that Alzheimer's Disease may be affected by diet, but this article seems awfully slim on real data and in one instance seems to diverge from actual experimental results. They claim that Type-2 diabetes and AD are "exacerbated by high fat diets", but the link with regards to the diabetes study specifies diet-induced obesity, not "high fat" diet. Dietary fat has much less effect on blood glucose levels than carbohydrates, so insulin's role is markedly decreased.

atomical 11y ago
A steak causes the release of as much insulin as pure sugar. Also, http://nutritionfacts.org/video/lipotoxicity-how-saturated-fat-raises-blood-sugar/ http://nutritionfacts.org/video/lipotoxicity-how-saturated-f...

rhondapatrick 11y ago

It's really important to not forget the genetic factors at play in Alzheimer's. Between 65-80% of all Alzheimer's patients have at least one genetic version of the ApoE4 allele, a genotype found in around 25% of the population [1]. ApoE is made in astrocytes and is involved in cholesterol transport to neurons and in repairing damage done to neurons that occurs with normal aging. That isn't to say there isn't a dietary link or that critical lifestyle factors don't interact with these genetics, however! Insulin resistance leads to inflammation (which has been shown to accelerate brain aging) and may be one way in which type 2 diabetes is linked with Alzheimer's. I think calling Alzheimer's disease "type 3 diabetes" may be a somewhat dramatic oversimplification and a bit misleading, though, since the mechanism would be a bit more general (in this case). [1]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21787325 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21787325

rubyfan 11y ago

Anyone have a mirror? Link seems down.

tiatia 11y ago

[Linked Page seems to be down] I once read tha claim that wheat causes Alzheimer's. The idea that Alzheimer is Type 3 diabetes it not new. I also remember a paper which claimed that nasal applied insulin improves Alzheimer symptoms. Assuming that Alzheimer could be a type of diabetes and taken into account a connection between Diabetes I and Celiac disease, the idea that Wheat consumption could trigger Alzheimer is not absurd.

linkydinkandyou 11y ago

We need to start holding people accountable for self-induced disease. Perhaps with taxes: tax the obese. However, even the people who think that "Alzheimer's" is "Type-3" diabetes don't believe that all senile dementia is "Type 3 Diabetes" or is diet-induced. Just certain types of it. But being obese is so unhealthy, and so easy to control (just eat LESS) that to not hold people accountable for it is not good or just.

michaelpinto 11y ago
Genetics plays a role in obesity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_of_obesity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_of_obesity You can also be thin and have a bad diet, and while you may not be obese your internal systems can still be suffering from damage over the long run. Something that should be noted: Many folks who are poor don't have access to high quality foods. So they can buy soda but not a salad. And what determines what makes those foods cheap or expensive are often driven by industry lobbying. So much so that when there was attempt to tax soda in NYC there was a great deal of money spent to stop that from going into effect.
- linkydinkandyou 11y ago
  You can buy water for even less than a soda. Here's what the left-leaning NPR says about Food Deserts and poor people's access to food. http://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132076786/the-root-the-myth-of-the-food-desert http://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132076786/the-root-the-myth-of... And here's the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of-food-deserts-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of... And here's the progressive magazine Slate: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2014/02/food_deserts_and_fresh_food_access_aren_t_the_problem_poverty_not_obesity.html http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2014/02/food_deserts...