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>Cannot rely on infinite economic growth on a planet with finite resources. On a longer timescale this might not even be an issue if efficient technology is de

>Cannot rely on infinite economic growth on a planet with finite resources. On a longer timescale this might not even be an issue if efficient technology is developed for interstellar travel and terraforming other planets.

ZenoArrow 11y ago
Why is a lack of infinite economic growth a problem? What do you hope to gain from it? As a side note, I'm all for space exploration, but I also appreciate why the prime directive from Star Trek is worth following.
- DennisP 11y ago
  There are probably plenty of dead planets out there where the Prime Directive wouldn't apply. Or at least, plenty of dead asteroids that we can turn into orbital colonies.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    I didn't say we wouldn't make use of other planets as places to live, but I believe we should respect the native life that almost certainly exists on some planets. I'm glad we're taking this attitude towards Mars at the moment, exploring but being careful not to bring Earth's lifeforms over to Mars to breed. In any case, my question still stands, what do you/we hope to gain from infinite economic growth?
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Personally, I don't think infinite economic growth will be a problem once we stop caring about it. Right now economic growth is something we measure and try to keep (and increase); e.g. some people look at the growth rates and try to create programs to make them go up. At some point I think we'll reach a level on which we can just stop caring and enjoy living. People will naturally want to improve lives for themselves and their children and yes, this would register as economic growth, but there's a significant difference between just observing it and trying to affect the metric on purpose.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    I agree to some extent, the problems are partially with people misunderstanding economic growth, and once we move away from that then at least some of the problems will go away. In the economy of barter, we gave what we had for what we wanted. Money was invented because it allowed us to buy from those we had nothing to sell to, facilitating easier trades. If you consider an economy as an engine, money would be the lubricant, it helps the engine run more smoothly, and just like engine lubricant it only works when it flows. Using the engine analogy again, what we should realise is that it's the engine that does the work and produces the goods, why do we need ever increasing amounts of lubricant for this engine? Two reasons, the lubricant gets hoarded, taking it out of use, and there's an ever increasing demand on the engine to produce more. Breaking away from the engine analogy now, whilst some of the increased demands on growth come from increasing population size, the other reason for the increase is extra demands on material wealth. Whilst there are those in poverty that clearly would benefit from increased material wealth, is that universally true? I don't know about you, but I know I've felt a certain amount of emptiness from the whole process, it's rare that I'll be excited about a new item, and yet I'm working a good chunk of my time for items I barely want. Perhaps material wealth only brings you happiness up to a point, and after that it's a case of diminishing returns. Perhaps you need to have grown up comfortably to see that, though clearly some people are happy with endlessly chasing material wealth so it doesn't appear to be a view held by everyone.
- tomjen3 11y ago
  Do you want your children to live a better life than you? Do you want your grandchildren to live a better life than you? Do you want you kids to see their grandchildren live a better life than theirs? If so you need infinite growth.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    What is the purpose of money? Why was money invented?

ZenoArrow 11y ago

Why is a lack of infinite economic growth a problem? What do you hope to gain from it? As a side note, I'm all for space exploration, but I also appreciate why the prime directive from Star Trek is worth following.

DennisP 11y ago
There are probably plenty of dead planets out there where the Prime Directive wouldn't apply. Or at least, plenty of dead asteroids that we can turn into orbital colonies.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  I didn't say we wouldn't make use of other planets as places to live, but I believe we should respect the native life that almost certainly exists on some planets. I'm glad we're taking this attitude towards Mars at the moment, exploring but being careful not to bring Earth's lifeforms over to Mars to breed. In any case, my question still stands, what do you/we hope to gain from infinite economic growth?
TeMPOraL 11y ago
Personally, I don't think infinite economic growth will be a problem once we stop caring about it. Right now economic growth is something we measure and try to keep (and increase); e.g. some people look at the growth rates and try to create programs to make them go up. At some point I think we'll reach a level on which we can just stop caring and enjoy living. People will naturally want to improve lives for themselves and their children and yes, this would register as economic growth, but there's a significant difference between just observing it and trying to affect the metric on purpose.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  I agree to some extent, the problems are partially with people misunderstanding economic growth, and once we move away from that then at least some of the problems will go away. In the economy of barter, we gave what we had for what we wanted. Money was invented because it allowed us to buy from those we had nothing to sell to, facilitating easier trades. If you consider an economy as an engine, money would be the lubricant, it helps the engine run more smoothly, and just like engine lubricant it only works when it flows. Using the engine analogy again, what we should realise is that it's the engine that does the work and produces the goods, why do we need ever increasing amounts of lubricant for this engine? Two reasons, the lubricant gets hoarded, taking it out of use, and there's an ever increasing demand on the engine to produce more. Breaking away from the engine analogy now, whilst some of the increased demands on growth come from increasing population size, the other reason for the increase is extra demands on material wealth. Whilst there are those in poverty that clearly would benefit from increased material wealth, is that universally true? I don't know about you, but I know I've felt a certain amount of emptiness from the whole process, it's rare that I'll be excited about a new item, and yet I'm working a good chunk of my time for items I barely want. Perhaps material wealth only brings you happiness up to a point, and after that it's a case of diminishing returns. Perhaps you need to have grown up comfortably to see that, though clearly some people are happy with endlessly chasing material wealth so it doesn't appear to be a view held by everyone.
tomjen3 11y ago
Do you want your children to live a better life than you? Do you want your grandchildren to live a better life than you? Do you want you kids to see their grandchildren live a better life than theirs? If so you need infinite growth.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  What is the purpose of money? Why was money invented?