6 ms·

It appears that regular cannabis use [0] decreases dopaminergic brain-activity [1]. Dopamine is often referred to as "pleasure"-transmitter, but it's function

by _98fj 11y ago

It appears that regular cannabis use [0] decreases dopaminergic brain-activity [1]. Dopamine is often referred to as "pleasure"-transmitter, but it's function in certain parts of the brain is better thought of as "regulating expectation", therefore influencing drive & motivation. It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. This works by enabling your conscious thoughts to silence other, more excitatory and emotional parts of your brain via a feedback-loop. [2] People with ADHS have trouble concentrating because this feedback-loop doesn't work well when they're not moving. Sitting still, they are constantly being flooded with inappropriate and negative emotions. They calm down when taking stimulants like Ritaline, because the "calming"-function of the brain starts working properly. Bottom-line: Cannabis has many good effects, but it definitely blunts motivation. [3] [0] rule of thumb: more than once weekly [1] http://www.pnas.org/content/111/30/E3149.abstract http://www.pnas.org/content/111/30/E3149.abstract [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontostriatal_circuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontostriatal_circuit [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzjkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzjkw

engx 11y ago
What you wrote is not definitive. What is the cause of ADHD? There is no physical test for it and its cause is unknown. Some experts believe it is caused by other things, like patterns of thinking. There is absolutely no evidence that millions of people have a physical biological issue where a stimulant effects them differently than normal people. An amphetamine is an amphetamine is an amphetamine. And: A new study challenges the popular idea that dysfunction in dopamine — a chemical that controls the brain’s reward and pleasure centers — is the main cause of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/02/chemical-imbalance-is-probably-not-behind-adhd/61512.html http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/02/chemical-imbalance-i... In truth, the “chemical imbalance” notion was always a kind of urban legend- - never a theory seriously propounded by well-informed psychiatrists. - http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blogs/couch-crisis/psychiatry-new-brain-mind-and-legend-chemical-imbalance#sthash.RRX0NFMA.dpuf http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blogs/couch-crisis/psychiatr...
- _98fj 11y ago
  What makes conversations about this very confusing is the fact that neurotransmitters and "chemical imbalances" cannot be seen in isolation. What we are talking about is signalling inside particular structures. Changes in signalling over time effect changes in structure, just like different behaviour does. (actually different behaviour IS change in signalling) Thus it's no wonder that psychiatric drugs have so many unpredictable effects. Administration of amphetamine might calm you, by exciting a down-regulating part of your brain, that is "structured correctly" (lack of a better word) and simultaneously give you anxiety by exciting the amygdala. It differs from person to person. It's also no wonder that people and scientists interchangeably exclaim "Behaviour!", "Genes!", "Education!", "Lack of dopamine!" when trying to explain ADHD. It's a mixture of all of those things, but there is definitely a genetic component, which seems to make certain kinds of people way way less apt in controlling their impulses. Psychiatric drugs don't change the structure of your brain, but, if administered carefully, they lower the bar to change it by behaviour and thoughts, thus being ultimately able to get rid of the medication all together.
  - dubhrosa 11y ago
    Genuine question: has there been any study that actually measured the "levels" of neurotransmitters in the brain and correlated them with the subjects' behavior? Has there been any study that actually demonstrates what the normal levels of these chemicals are in adults and children, and what the normal range is, and what environmental and nutritional factors can influence them? I ask because I constantly hear the "chemical imbalance" explanation for behavioural issues and prescribing these drugs, but I have not ever found a paper that actually provides scientific evidence for this explanation.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      > I ask because I constantly hear the "chemical imbalance" explanation for behavioural issues and prescribing these drugs, EDIT: can I check: are you hearing that from doctors doing the prescribing?
digi_owl 11y ago
> It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. In that case i must be severely dopamine deficient...
marmaduke 11y ago
> Cannabis blunts motivation perspicacious diction
- benihana 11y ago
  really great contribution to the discussion, thanks for sharing.
adrusi 11y ago
I wonder then what the effect of cannabis is on the motivation/drive of someone with ADHD. Does the ADHD subject have a very weak frontostriatal circuit to begin with so that low dopamine levels only make something weak weaker (and therefore not having as profound outward effect as making a strong frontostriatal circuit weak). Or do the low dopamine levels and impaired circuit compound each other, resulting in a larger-than-normal decline in motiviation.
- zxcvcxz 11y ago
  I use cannabis to treat ADHD. I didn't like the side effects of the other drugs my doctor gave me. It works really well for me. I'd also like point this out: http://gizmodo.com/the-fbi-is-struggling-to-hire-hackers-who-dont-smoke-we-1579183208 http://gizmodo.com/the-fbi-is-struggling-to-hire-hackers-who... >The FBI Is Struggling to Hire Hackers Who Don't Smoke Weed I think most people who work stressful jobs have difficult times when it comes to concentrating on long term goals, it's just human nature. For me marijuana has helped me reach many goals that I would have other wise given up on due to mental exhaustion.
  - adrusi 11y ago
    I, too, have ADHD and use cannabis, although I've always tried to avoid cannabis use in the contexts where ADHD can be an impairment like school and work. So I'm curious, in what specific ways do you find cannabis helps you? What is your approach to treating ADHD symptoms with cannabis?
thenerdfiles 11y ago
It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. This statement asserts causation where only correlation, particular of neural correlates, only justifies. That part of the brain plays a role in the process of expectation — it does not, by itself, make it possible. Language, other brain functions, social inertia, etc. makes expectation possible, and there is a critical question of the content of expectation. Cannabis obviously increases appetite and drives a greater motivation for munchies. Therefore, the reduction of dopeminergic brain-activity alone does not isolate cannabis as the defeater of all motivation but rather of certain kinds of motivation dependent on pleasure-data. Obviously what if I derive pleasure from making logical deductions or from reading? What of children who are synesthes, and who mix up stimulae as a neurotypicality modality that is atypical?
- _98fj 11y ago
  That is true. Once a rather famous illustrator told me that he couldn't have done a certain ad showing a lion because … "Drawing hairs for hours and hours was just too boring, so I smoked". In my experience cannabis especially lowers the motivation for physical activity, but also the "motivation" to process and work on bad emotions.

by _98fj 11y ago

engx 11y ago

What you wrote is not definitive. What is the cause of ADHD? There is no physical test for it and its cause is unknown. Some experts believe it is caused by other things, like patterns of thinking. There is absolutely no evidence that millions of people have a physical biological issue where a stimulant effects them differently than normal people. An amphetamine is an amphetamine is an amphetamine. And: A new study challenges the popular idea that dysfunction in dopamine — a chemical that controls the brain’s reward and pleasure centers — is the main cause of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/02/chemical-imbalance-is-probably-not-behind-adhd/61512.html http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/02/chemical-imbalance-i... In truth, the “chemical imbalance” notion was always a kind of urban legend- - never a theory seriously propounded by well-informed psychiatrists. - http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blogs/couch-crisis/psychiatry-new-brain-mind-and-legend-chemical-imbalance#sthash.RRX0NFMA.dpuf http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blogs/couch-crisis/psychiatr...

_98fj 11y ago
What makes conversations about this very confusing is the fact that neurotransmitters and "chemical imbalances" cannot be seen in isolation. What we are talking about is signalling inside particular structures. Changes in signalling over time effect changes in structure, just like different behaviour does. (actually different behaviour IS change in signalling) Thus it's no wonder that psychiatric drugs have so many unpredictable effects. Administration of amphetamine might calm you, by exciting a down-regulating part of your brain, that is "structured correctly" (lack of a better word) and simultaneously give you anxiety by exciting the amygdala. It differs from person to person. It's also no wonder that people and scientists interchangeably exclaim "Behaviour!", "Genes!", "Education!", "Lack of dopamine!" when trying to explain ADHD. It's a mixture of all of those things, but there is definitely a genetic component, which seems to make certain kinds of people way way less apt in controlling their impulses. Psychiatric drugs don't change the structure of your brain, but, if administered carefully, they lower the bar to change it by behaviour and thoughts, thus being ultimately able to get rid of the medication all together.
- dubhrosa 11y ago
  Genuine question: has there been any study that actually measured the "levels" of neurotransmitters in the brain and correlated them with the subjects' behavior? Has there been any study that actually demonstrates what the normal levels of these chemicals are in adults and children, and what the normal range is, and what environmental and nutritional factors can influence them? I ask because I constantly hear the "chemical imbalance" explanation for behavioural issues and prescribing these drugs, but I have not ever found a paper that actually provides scientific evidence for this explanation.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > I ask because I constantly hear the "chemical imbalance" explanation for behavioural issues and prescribing these drugs, EDIT: can I check: are you hearing that from doctors doing the prescribing?

digi_owl 11y ago

> It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. In that case i must be severely dopamine deficient...

marmaduke 11y ago

> Cannabis blunts motivation perspicacious diction

benihana 11y ago
really great contribution to the discussion, thanks for sharing.

adrusi 11y ago

I wonder then what the effect of cannabis is on the motivation/drive of someone with ADHD. Does the ADHD subject have a very weak frontostriatal circuit to begin with so that low dopamine levels only make something weak weaker (and therefore not having as profound outward effect as making a strong frontostriatal circuit weak). Or do the low dopamine levels and impaired circuit compound each other, resulting in a larger-than-normal decline in motiviation.

zxcvcxz 11y ago
I use cannabis to treat ADHD. I didn't like the side effects of the other drugs my doctor gave me. It works really well for me. I'd also like point this out: http://gizmodo.com/the-fbi-is-struggling-to-hire-hackers-who-dont-smoke-we-1579183208 http://gizmodo.com/the-fbi-is-struggling-to-hire-hackers-who... >The FBI Is Struggling to Hire Hackers Who Don't Smoke Weed I think most people who work stressful jobs have difficult times when it comes to concentrating on long term goals, it's just human nature. For me marijuana has helped me reach many goals that I would have other wise given up on due to mental exhaustion.
- adrusi 11y ago
  I, too, have ADHD and use cannabis, although I've always tried to avoid cannabis use in the contexts where ADHD can be an impairment like school and work. So I'm curious, in what specific ways do you find cannabis helps you? What is your approach to treating ADHD symptoms with cannabis?

thenerdfiles 11y ago

It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. This statement asserts causation where only correlation, particular of neural correlates, only justifies. That part of the brain plays a role in the process of expectation — it does not, by itself, make it possible. Language, other brain functions, social inertia, etc. makes expectation possible, and there is a critical question of the content of expectation. Cannabis obviously increases appetite and drives a greater motivation for munchies. Therefore, the reduction of dopeminergic brain-activity alone does not isolate cannabis as the defeater of all motivation but rather of certain kinds of motivation dependent on pleasure-data. Obviously what if I derive pleasure from making logical deductions or from reading? What of children who are synesthes, and who mix up stimulae as a neurotypicality modality that is atypical?

_98fj 11y ago
That is true. Once a rather famous illustrator told me that he couldn't have done a certain ad showing a lion because … "Drawing hairs for hours and hours was just too boring, so I smoked". In my experience cannabis especially lowers the motivation for physical activity, but also the "motivation" to process and work on bad emotions.