4 ms·

This is exactly what I think every time someone says "We need to encourage more women/people to study CS." If you're only doing it for the money, you're probabl

by tomp 11y ago

This is exactly what I think every time someone says "We need to encourage more women/people to study CS." If you're only doing it for the money, you're probably doing it wrong. Studying CS for 3 years does not a programmer/hacker make; staying up coding all night or while other kids are playing outside, for years, is what it takes.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
Nerd elitism in programming needs to stop. The first hackers didn't have computers when they were kids, let me remind you.
- JesperRavn 11y ago
  I would like to see nerd elitism and nerd bashing both stop. Some people claim that to be a programmer you need to have a certain personality or hobbies, and this is wrong. But nerd elitism is also a reaction to having been excluded, ridiculed and sometimes bullied. That doesn't make it right, but it also means that bashing nerds and nerd culture, as is all to common amongst progressives, is both unfair and counterproductive. What I would like to see more people saying is that it's ok that many people in tech have certain hobbies or personality traits in common, but that a person doesn't have to have these things to work in tech.
- douche 11y ago
  They were tinkerers, though. You've got the MIT model railroad kids, all the people that fooled around with scrap electronics, the radioheads, some gearheads. I have no references to back this up, but I think it would make an interesting longitudinal study, or if you were somewhat cruel, a twin study: are children that spend most of their play time building with Legos or Kinex or erector sets significantly more likely to end up as engineers and computer programmers?
  - zobzu 11y ago
    These things don't pay though. People care about diversity only where it pays. If comp sci. was still seen as a thing for nerds with skin issues that don't get a lot of money you can bet there would be no "diversity" thing going on. There should be no such thing. Instead of trying to bend ethics I'd rather make sure any one, from any skin color, gender, place of birth, etc. can do anything they want. THAT would be diversity. The truth is that today what you can do with your life depends a LOT more on your place of birth than your skin color or gender.
mitchty 11y ago
Umm, what? Do we say this kind of crap to Lawyers? Doctors? Engineers? (scratch the last one i'm sure we do say this kind of crap to them) Why must programming be such a soul sucking life encompassing thing? It doesn't matter if you're a woman or man, this stupid mindset that somehow the only way to be a programmer is to be a stereotype needs to be launched into the sun and forevermore forgotten. Just today I met a girl that was in her last year for aerospace engineering. She didn't look like any nerd you might think. She just looked normal. Great fun to talk to as well. Maybe when us nerds stop thinking of ourselves as some sort of promised race of super humans we can move past some of this nonsense.
- this2shallPass 11y ago
  Medicine and big-firm law are life encompassing things. Less true of engineering. But for the future doctors, usually pre-med and definitely medical school and being a doctor forces this on you, and for the big firm lawyers, the same.
  - mitchty 11y ago
    Right but we're not telling people you can't be a doctor because you didn't sleep and breathe medicine before you went to college. Least the doctors I have met all seemed to think of it as a job not a lifestyle. It is that fundamental point I'm slightly annoyed with. Big firm law is also a bit of a clique, a lawyer friend of mine and the lawyers I know of all seem to love law, but aren't of this weird mindset that only the self chosen few are worthy of the endeavor.
- hkmurakami 11y ago
  Not arguing against the rest of your post, but yes, Doctors do have to go through such a gauntlet.
- Natsu 11y ago
  Bad code causes real harm to everyone else on your team, so coders have more incentive to worry about the skill of their coworkers than other professions do. You don't need to be nerdy for that, just good, but the two are correlated because you gain skill if you willingly spend all of your free time on technical stuff. As for workload, lawyers and doctors tend to be overworked and honestly that's really not okay for doctors, as it leads to dangerous mistakes. My cousin is a lawyer and she always seems to be working, but she's also great at what she does. Another cousin of mine is becoming a doctor and residency is quite a gauntlet for her to run. But those are other issues.

by tomp 11y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

Nerd elitism in programming needs to stop. The first hackers didn't have computers when they were kids, let me remind you.

JesperRavn 11y ago
I would like to see nerd elitism and nerd bashing both stop. Some people claim that to be a programmer you need to have a certain personality or hobbies, and this is wrong. But nerd elitism is also a reaction to having been excluded, ridiculed and sometimes bullied. That doesn't make it right, but it also means that bashing nerds and nerd culture, as is all to common amongst progressives, is both unfair and counterproductive. What I would like to see more people saying is that it's ok that many people in tech have certain hobbies or personality traits in common, but that a person doesn't have to have these things to work in tech.
douche 11y ago
They were tinkerers, though. You've got the MIT model railroad kids, all the people that fooled around with scrap electronics, the radioheads, some gearheads. I have no references to back this up, but I think it would make an interesting longitudinal study, or if you were somewhat cruel, a twin study: are children that spend most of their play time building with Legos or Kinex or erector sets significantly more likely to end up as engineers and computer programmers?
- zobzu 11y ago
  These things don't pay though. People care about diversity only where it pays. If comp sci. was still seen as a thing for nerds with skin issues that don't get a lot of money you can bet there would be no "diversity" thing going on. There should be no such thing. Instead of trying to bend ethics I'd rather make sure any one, from any skin color, gender, place of birth, etc. can do anything they want. THAT would be diversity. The truth is that today what you can do with your life depends a LOT more on your place of birth than your skin color or gender.

mitchty 11y ago

Umm, what? Do we say this kind of crap to Lawyers? Doctors? Engineers? (scratch the last one i'm sure we do say this kind of crap to them) Why must programming be such a soul sucking life encompassing thing? It doesn't matter if you're a woman or man, this stupid mindset that somehow the only way to be a programmer is to be a stereotype needs to be launched into the sun and forevermore forgotten. Just today I met a girl that was in her last year for aerospace engineering. She didn't look like any nerd you might think. She just looked normal. Great fun to talk to as well. Maybe when us nerds stop thinking of ourselves as some sort of promised race of super humans we can move past some of this nonsense.

this2shallPass 11y ago
Medicine and big-firm law are life encompassing things. Less true of engineering. But for the future doctors, usually pre-med and definitely medical school and being a doctor forces this on you, and for the big firm lawyers, the same.
- mitchty 11y ago
  Right but we're not telling people you can't be a doctor because you didn't sleep and breathe medicine before you went to college. Least the doctors I have met all seemed to think of it as a job not a lifestyle. It is that fundamental point I'm slightly annoyed with. Big firm law is also a bit of a clique, a lawyer friend of mine and the lawyers I know of all seem to love law, but aren't of this weird mindset that only the self chosen few are worthy of the endeavor.
hkmurakami 11y ago
Not arguing against the rest of your post, but yes, Doctors do have to go through such a gauntlet.
Natsu 11y ago
Bad code causes real harm to everyone else on your team, so coders have more incentive to worry about the skill of their coworkers than other professions do. You don't need to be nerdy for that, just good, but the two are correlated because you gain skill if you willingly spend all of your free time on technical stuff. As for workload, lawyers and doctors tend to be overworked and honestly that's really not okay for doctors, as it leads to dangerous mistakes. My cousin is a lawyer and she always seems to be working, but she's also great at what she does. Another cousin of mine is becoming a doctor and residency is quite a gauntlet for her to run. But those are other issues.