4 ms·

I'm genuinely curious why I haven't seen any uproar about the numerous majors where men are in minority.

by natmaster 11y ago

reagency 11y ago
Because men haven't found gender related hostility or exclusion from high paying jobs in those majors.
- yareally 11y ago
  > Because men haven't found gender related hostility or exclusion from high paying jobs in those majors. Men do face discrimination in nursing. However, men are still paid more on average than female nurses[1]. Make of that what you will. The thing I find most striking is that before the 20th century, most nurses were men and in the early days of computing there was a much higher number of women in the field. [1] http://medcitynews.com/2015/03/male-nurses-earn-maybe-gender-discrimination-maybe/ http://medcitynews.com/2015/03/male-nurses-earn-maybe-gender... https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/1l1k75/any_male_nurses_experience_discrimination/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/1l1k75/any_male_nu... http://www.jacksonvilleu.com/resources/career/men-in-nursing/ http://www.jacksonvilleu.com/resources/career/men-in-nursing... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21272837 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21272837
  - chongli 11y ago
    That's because 41% of male nurses are nurse anaesthetists, a profession that makes nearly 4 times the salary of a registered nurse. There is a gender gap even within specific nursing professions but it's not nearly as extreme as that.
    - yareally 11y ago
      > There is a gender gap even within specific nursing professions but it's not nearly as extreme as that. Only ~10% of registered nurses in the United States are men[1]. > According to the Census Bureau, men made up about 9 percent of registered nurses in 2011, roughly a three-fold increase from 1970. [1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/pdf/cb13-32_men_in_nursing_occupations.pdf https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/pdf/cb13-32_men_in_...
      - chongli 11y ago
        Generally, when we use the term "gender gap" in this context, it refers specifically to a wage gap and not other gaps. Sorry for not making that clear.
  - dsfyu404ed 11y ago
    "computing" was a secretaries job. It was a position typically filled by a woman who worked with numerical data (working with spreadsheets, calculating an insurance premium, etc...mission critical back end stuff). During WW2 pretty much all these jobs were filled by women. Computing and IT started to come of age during the post WW2 boom so there would have been a lot of women with the math background to make programming and working with computers somewhat of a logical next step in ones career. Coincidentally, these woman who had math backgrounds were also some of the fist to have their jobs automated out of existence (the woman who calculates someone's insurance premium is replaced with a box of punch cards). Just speculating but it wouldn't be a stretch to see how when choosing between going home or switching careers the woman who didn't become the stereotypical 50s-60s housewives as their jobs were automated found new jobs writing punch cards (programming) and operating computers. (i'm in a hurry, probably lots of grammar mistakes in that)
    - yareally 11y ago
      > "computing" was a secretaries job. Correct, that was the case with a number of the roles. Those roles were sort of like the modern day CRUD development and things that (mostly) get automated away. However, Grace Hopper[1], Betty Holberton[2], Frances Spence[3], along with around a half dozen of the original programmers of the ENIAC[4] would disagree that they were only filling a secretary like position. In reference to my previous comment, I mostly found it surprising that these pioneers didn't lead to more women pursuing CS early on. I suppose it has more to do with the cultural trends that came after the war as you said yourself. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Holberton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Holberton [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Spence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Spence [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC
- this2shallPass 11y ago
  There's definitely hostility. If a prevailing doctrine is straight white wealthy males are the problem, isn't it hostile to people who are straight, white, wealthy, or male?
  - joshkpeterson 11y ago
    You don't get it. Please reflect on this more.
    - this2shallPass 11y ago
      I get it :) I suggest you reflect on this and what people say and mean when they talk about topics relating to privilege, power, gender, race, wealth, patriarchy, etc., and you'll get it, too.
      - joshkpeterson 11y ago
        Were you being facetious and I missed it?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
DanBC 11y ago
Because you haven't looked? Pick any subject where men are under-represented and you can find, if you look for it, groups who are (rightly) trying to fix it.

I'm genuinely curious why I haven't seen any uproar about the numerous majors where men are in minority.

reagency 11y ago

Because men haven't found gender related hostility or exclusion from high paying jobs in those majors.

yareally 11y ago
> Because men haven't found gender related hostility or exclusion from high paying jobs in those majors. Men do face discrimination in nursing. However, men are still paid more on average than female nurses[1]. Make of that what you will. The thing I find most striking is that before the 20th century, most nurses were men and in the early days of computing there was a much higher number of women in the field. [1] http://medcitynews.com/2015/03/male-nurses-earn-maybe-gender-discrimination-maybe/ http://medcitynews.com/2015/03/male-nurses-earn-maybe-gender... https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/1l1k75/any_male_nurses_experience_discrimination/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/1l1k75/any_male_nu... http://www.jacksonvilleu.com/resources/career/men-in-nursing/ http://www.jacksonvilleu.com/resources/career/men-in-nursing... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21272837 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21272837
- chongli 11y ago
  That's because 41% of male nurses are nurse anaesthetists, a profession that makes nearly 4 times the salary of a registered nurse. There is a gender gap even within specific nursing professions but it's not nearly as extreme as that.
  - yareally 11y ago
    > There is a gender gap even within specific nursing professions but it's not nearly as extreme as that. Only ~10% of registered nurses in the United States are men[1]. > According to the Census Bureau, men made up about 9 percent of registered nurses in 2011, roughly a three-fold increase from 1970. [1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/pdf/cb13-32_men_in_nursing_occupations.pdf https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/pdf/cb13-32_men_in_...
    - chongli 11y ago
      Generally, when we use the term "gender gap" in this context, it refers specifically to a wage gap and not other gaps. Sorry for not making that clear.
- dsfyu404ed 11y ago
  "computing" was a secretaries job. It was a position typically filled by a woman who worked with numerical data (working with spreadsheets, calculating an insurance premium, etc...mission critical back end stuff). During WW2 pretty much all these jobs were filled by women. Computing and IT started to come of age during the post WW2 boom so there would have been a lot of women with the math background to make programming and working with computers somewhat of a logical next step in ones career. Coincidentally, these woman who had math backgrounds were also some of the fist to have their jobs automated out of existence (the woman who calculates someone's insurance premium is replaced with a box of punch cards). Just speculating but it wouldn't be a stretch to see how when choosing between going home or switching careers the woman who didn't become the stereotypical 50s-60s housewives as their jobs were automated found new jobs writing punch cards (programming) and operating computers. (i'm in a hurry, probably lots of grammar mistakes in that)
  - yareally 11y ago
    > "computing" was a secretaries job. Correct, that was the case with a number of the roles. Those roles were sort of like the modern day CRUD development and things that (mostly) get automated away. However, Grace Hopper[1], Betty Holberton[2], Frances Spence[3], along with around a half dozen of the original programmers of the ENIAC[4] would disagree that they were only filling a secretary like position. In reference to my previous comment, I mostly found it surprising that these pioneers didn't lead to more women pursuing CS early on. I suppose it has more to do with the cultural trends that came after the war as you said yourself. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Holberton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Holberton [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Spence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Spence [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC
this2shallPass 11y ago
There's definitely hostility. If a prevailing doctrine is straight white wealthy males are the problem, isn't it hostile to people who are straight, white, wealthy, or male?
- joshkpeterson 11y ago
  You don't get it. Please reflect on this more.
  - this2shallPass 11y ago
    I get it :) I suggest you reflect on this and what people say and mean when they talk about topics relating to privilege, power, gender, race, wealth, patriarchy, etc., and you'll get it, too.
    - joshkpeterson 11y ago
      Were you being facetious and I missed it?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

DanBC 11y ago

Because you haven't looked? Pick any subject where men are under-represented and you can find, if you look for it, groups who are (rightly) trying to fix it.