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From within, a monoculture is easily mistaken for an absence of ideology. From outside, this thread looks like a set of mocking, contemptuous dismissals of any

From within, a monoculture is easily mistaken for an absence of ideology. From outside, this thread looks like a set of mocking, contemptuous dismissals of anyone who doesn't agree with that ideological monoculture. Even without any dissenting thoughts, it remains a flamewar; just a flamewar with only one side. Perhaps I'm alone in finding that a little creepy.

nkurz 11y ago
From outside, this thread looks like a set of mocking, contemptuous dismissals of anyone who doesn't agree with that ideological monoculture. What's the evidence that causes you to believe that there is an "ideological monoculture"[1] here? I don't know how close to a majority it is, but I'd guess there are many people that would agree with you. I for example 'vouched' for your top comment in this thread, since I thought it was wrongly flagged. But I cringed when I saw your 'Weimerica', because that's just not a useful means of discourse, and will cause people to dismiss your earlier (worthwhile) content. I'd guess that Dan's response to you came from the same sentiment: you started well, but then veered off into "sheeple" territory[2]. Consider: is he more likely to offer corrective advice on "tone" to people with ideas he wants to see more of, or to those whose ideas themselves are unwelcome? Rather than concluding that your ideas aren't welcome here, consider that the problem might simply be the tone. [1] Speaking of monoculture, did you know that Dan isn't American? Happy Thanksgiving, Dan! [2] Regardless of the aptness of the term, I find "sheeple" a reliable indicator of a failed argument.
- emgoldstein 11y ago
  I guess I wouldn't define a silent perspective, whether majority or minority, as present in the conversation. It is one phenomenon when everyone agrees. Probably everyone is right. When everyone who speaks agrees, and everyone who doesn't agree doesn't speak, that's quite a different pattern. As I noted above, I agree: I think the problem is the tone. In combination with this pattern, of course. (I should have just noted that it seems possible that the reason American parents find their children less safe in public is that they're right. Parents are worried about assaults and kidnapping. I couldn't find statistics on child assault and/or kidnapping, but the Japanese rape rate is roughly 27x (not 27%) lower than the American [1]. Given this fact, it's not immediately obvious why one should search for an additional cause of the disparity.) Wherever our moderator is from, his perspective is an American perspective. This is an objective factual statement, like the fact that English is an Indo-European language. Probably in the same geographic region 100 years ago, there was a living pre-American intellectual tradition. But it hasn't existed since 1945 at the latest. (The most concentrated remaining geographic locus of pre-American ideology is -- by no coincidence -- the subject of this article. Nippon Kaigi anyone? But I don't believe Dan is Japanese. And even Japan isn't exactly what it once was.) [1] http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Japan/United-States/Crime http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Japan/Unite... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Kaigi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Kaigi
- DanBC 11y ago
  > since I thought it was wrongly flagged You don't think the incoherence of the following posts proves the flaggers correct? (Edit: are you saying happy thanks giving to me (not a mod) or dang (a mod)? Either way: Happy Thanksgiving!)
  - nkurz 11y ago
    > You don't think the incoherence of the following posts > proves the flaggers correct? I lack certainty, but I think the post I vouched for is still a useful addition to the conversation. Generally, I try to flag (and recently, unflag) individual posts rather than expected user behavior. That said, I probably wouldn't have tried to recover it if I'd read the Weimerica comment first. The later posts have some oblique insights. I can why one might downvote them (I didn't), but (unless I missed something) they don't seem flagworthy. > are you saying happy thanks giving to me (not a mod) or dang (a mod)? I was saying Happy Thanksgiving to the moderator Dan Gackle, since Monday is the Thanksgiving holiday in Canada. I hoped this was clear since he's the author of the grandparent comment, but I suppose other Dan's can share the goodwill!

nkurz 11y ago

From outside, this thread looks like a set of mocking, contemptuous dismissals of anyone who doesn't agree with that ideological monoculture. What's the evidence that causes you to believe that there is an "ideological monoculture"[1] here? I don't know how close to a majority it is, but I'd guess there are many people that would agree with you. I for example 'vouched' for your top comment in this thread, since I thought it was wrongly flagged. But I cringed when I saw your 'Weimerica', because that's just not a useful means of discourse, and will cause people to dismiss your earlier (worthwhile) content. I'd guess that Dan's response to you came from the same sentiment: you started well, but then veered off into "sheeple" territory[2]. Consider: is he more likely to offer corrective advice on "tone" to people with ideas he wants to see more of, or to those whose ideas themselves are unwelcome? Rather than concluding that your ideas aren't welcome here, consider that the problem might simply be the tone. [1] Speaking of monoculture, did you know that Dan isn't American? Happy Thanksgiving, Dan! [2] Regardless of the aptness of the term, I find "sheeple" a reliable indicator of a failed argument.

emgoldstein 11y ago
I guess I wouldn't define a silent perspective, whether majority or minority, as present in the conversation. It is one phenomenon when everyone agrees. Probably everyone is right. When everyone who speaks agrees, and everyone who doesn't agree doesn't speak, that's quite a different pattern. As I noted above, I agree: I think the problem is the tone. In combination with this pattern, of course. (I should have just noted that it seems possible that the reason American parents find their children less safe in public is that they're right. Parents are worried about assaults and kidnapping. I couldn't find statistics on child assault and/or kidnapping, but the Japanese rape rate is roughly 27x (not 27%) lower than the American [1]. Given this fact, it's not immediately obvious why one should search for an additional cause of the disparity.) Wherever our moderator is from, his perspective is an American perspective. This is an objective factual statement, like the fact that English is an Indo-European language. Probably in the same geographic region 100 years ago, there was a living pre-American intellectual tradition. But it hasn't existed since 1945 at the latest. (The most concentrated remaining geographic locus of pre-American ideology is -- by no coincidence -- the subject of this article. Nippon Kaigi anyone? But I don't believe Dan is Japanese. And even Japan isn't exactly what it once was.) [1] http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Japan/United-States/Crime http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Japan/Unite... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Kaigi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Kaigi
DanBC 11y ago
> since I thought it was wrongly flagged You don't think the incoherence of the following posts proves the flaggers correct? (Edit: are you saying happy thanks giving to me (not a mod) or dang (a mod)? Either way: Happy Thanksgiving!)
- nkurz 11y ago
  > You don't think the incoherence of the following posts > proves the flaggers correct? I lack certainty, but I think the post I vouched for is still a useful addition to the conversation. Generally, I try to flag (and recently, unflag) individual posts rather than expected user behavior. That said, I probably wouldn't have tried to recover it if I'd read the Weimerica comment first. The later posts have some oblique insights. I can why one might downvote them (I didn't), but (unless I missed something) they don't seem flagworthy. > are you saying happy thanks giving to me (not a mod) or dang (a mod)? I was saying Happy Thanksgiving to the moderator Dan Gackle, since Monday is the Thanksgiving holiday in Canada. I hoped this was clear since he's the author of the grandparent comment, but I suppose other Dan's can share the goodwill!