4 ms·

Islamic State has shifted to Telegram from Twitter

35 points by cskau 11y ago

jkot 11y ago
Could we stop propagating them? There is no 'state', it is just part of desert with bandits in pickups. And BBC should not give hints where to find latest propaganda. It is like reporting 'piratebay.com' domain is down, use 'piratebay.xyz'
- coffeecheque 11y ago
  I'm not sure if the article been updated since you had a look, but the first line of the article refers to the Jihadist group as the "so-called Islamic State". Also I think there is a public interest in knowing that Daesh is apparently switching communication platforms. If there's been an effort to reduce/remove Daesh from Twitter, why couldn't there be a similar strategy with Telegram? You seem to be advocating the security-by-obscurity line, in regards to propaganda. It's out there, and if people want to find it, they don't need to look far.
  - KaiserPro 11y ago
    youre not going to destroy Daesh by forcing them to move communications medium to their tenuous followers. They currently have excellent source or arms, money, people and land. The only way to stop them is to deprive them of resources, just like any other war. There is nothing different about daesh. They live, breath, fight and bleed just like any other. They only real difference is that the western media appear to be hell bent on giving them as much airtime as possible.
  - jkot 11y ago
    'So called' disclaimer is on almost every BBC article. But it is media like BBC who spread this name in first place. Compare IS with 'Kurdistan'. It is a 'state' somehow similar to IS, but it gets completely different treatment. And they gave step by step manual: Go to app store, install Telegram, search IS channel.
    - gaius 11y ago
      In the Falklands war, the BBC broadcast that the Argentine air force were setting their bomb fuses wrong and their bombs weren't exploding when they hit British ships, and also pre-announced the attack on Goose Green. They're well known for playing both sides against the middle.
      - arethuza 11y ago
        I have read that the Goose Green incident was actually caused by a MoD official releasing something too early - they were just passing on the message. The thing about the bomb fuses was a horrendous mistake “six better fuses and we would have lost” - particularly as there was nothing wrong with the fuses and the Argentinians could have easily fixed this by a simple adjustment.
- yoavm 11y ago
  You didn't just compared ISIS to the Pirate Bay, did you?
- Hermel 11y ago
  They have laws, courts, schools, taxes, an army, and a territory. Sounds like a state to me.
  - jkot 11y ago
    So has Kurdistan, but we dont hear about every fart they made.
    - korisnik 11y ago
      It's really not clear what point you're trying to make, if any at all. If you don't like reading about ISIS, then don't. It's as easy as that. And it'll make you look a lot less pretentious than you are right now.
      - jkot 11y ago
        I dont like that Islamic radicals are referred to as a 'state'. Usually it takes long time for area to be recognized as 'state', and its first step towards official recognition by other governments.
        huac 11y ago
        Historically, 'areas' have declared themselves states and killed anybody who disagreed, until people stopped disagreeing.
        korisnik 11y ago
        >Usually it takes long time for area to be recognized as 'state', Islamic State has existed since about 2006.
        vixen99 11y ago
        But it isn't. If it were, the UK could then remove the citizenship of current UK citizens who become ISIS admirers avowing violence against Britons and Britain. Currently they have difficulty with that because it's not possible to make someone stateless.
- nl 11y ago
  Raqqah (Raqqa) is (or was) over 250,000 people. Mosul is 1.5 million. That's hardly desert, bandits and pickups (no matter how much we may wish that was true).
KaiserPro 11y ago
I know what the inference is here: give me your back doors, encryption is only for evil people. However you could say the same for electricity, GPS, phones, guns etc.
Canada 11y ago
I didn't think group messages on Telegram had any special security.
- yoavm 11y ago
  According to the article they are planning to use Telegram channels (which is more like a broadcast list in whatsapp), and not group chat. Doesn't seem like it's meant for internal communication, so I guess that security isn't a top priority for this purpose.
krmmalik 11y ago
Rather convenient that this news comes out at the same time that Obama says he won't ask for keys to encrypted data.
- zamalek 11y ago
  A: Telegram has no intentional back doors. Any malice on the part of Obama has absolutely no relevance here whatsoever. If you want to disprove me feel free to audit the source[1]. Nobody would have ever been able to ask for keys in the first place, hence, the reason it was purportedly chosen by IS. B: That's pure conjecture and is a conspiracy theory. [1]: https://telegram.org/source https://telegram.org/source
  - krmmalik 11y ago
    This isnt about Telegram. It's about BBCs decision to report on IS and what theyre doing. Youre clearly not familiar with IS history. IS was armed and supported by the US (do your research) and the BBC is well known as a US mouth piece. Looking at this as a purely tech debate, one of conjecture or a conspiracy theory is incredibly naive.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - zamalek 11y ago
      Here are the HN guidelines [1]. > This isnt about Telegram. Yes it is: the article is about Telegram and you yourself bought up cryptography keys. You implied that Telegram had some unsubstantiated correlation to the Obama administration (regardless of what previous administrations have done). You're veering wildly off-topic into a typical flamewar topic with no evidence, as well as asserting without justification that I am clueless about IS. > [1]: Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them. That is to say, it's probably best to be done here. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - 11y ago
nl 11y ago
No. Nope. Not true. Mostly, anyway. Follow https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar, look at some of the links from Twitter and click around a bit and you'll find plenty of IS sympathisers. However, Twitter is fairly active in shutting them down nowdays. What most do is keep a Tumblr with a link to their Twitter account, and link their Tumblr from Twitter. Then when one shuts down they can reestablish from the other. I'd be surprised if IS aren't using Telegram though. They are pretty active on every other social platform.
- krmmalik 11y ago
  BBC has lost a lot of credibility lately with the British public. All because of stunts like this: inaccurate, opportunistic reporting. They chose to downplay Corbyn's rise to prominence (he's our equivalent to Bernie Sanders), over represented right-wing figures and have chosen not to cover key issues the masses are talking about -- not too dissimilar to how the mainstream US press hasnt been covering the millionmanmarch this weekend.
  - bb101 11y ago
    The irony is that in Conservative circles, the BBC is criticised for devoting too much airtime to Corbyn and his band of swampies, who are woefully unpopular outside the vegetarian dreadlocked middle-class Islington set. Seems like the BBC can't do anything right.
    - krmmalik 11y ago
      Key point being "Conservative circles" , which lets face it arent very big. The conservatives were dreadfukly movked and ridiculed when the arrived in Manchester last week. Most of the working class cant stand them.
      - bb101 11y ago
        Well, except that most of England voted for the Conservatives in the election just a few months ago. They are hugely, yet quietly, supported and popular in any area of Britain that isn't deprived. Manchester, Bradford, Luton and their ilk are all bastions of welfare recipients so it's hardly surprising that the Conservatives aren't popular there.
gaius 11y ago
If this isn't proof that Twitter's business model is doomed then I don't know what is. It would be like the Taliban announcing they'll no longer use Toyotas.
gozo 11y ago
"Telegram itself suggests it will take down illegal material" What does illegal material mean? I guess Germany has lesser free speech than the US, but still it's a messaging service after all. I wonder were Twitter draw the line. They outright welcome many state actors that rival IS if not in scale at least in means. Maybe the line is drawn for them by some friends from the state department?
- gil 11y ago
  Indeed. It also begs the question of how will the scan for "illegal material"?
mtgx 11y ago
Do they know Telegram is not encrypted E2E by default?
heroh 11y ago
The US government allows the Isalmic State to exist, from providing them training, Toyota trucks + enabling the "black market" sales of oil all this is mostly fear mongering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXe4gy_ABf8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXe4gy_ABf8

35 points by cskau 11y ago

jkot 11y ago

Could we stop propagating them? There is no 'state', it is just part of desert with bandits in pickups. And BBC should not give hints where to find latest propaganda. It is like reporting 'piratebay.com' domain is down, use 'piratebay.xyz'

coffeecheque 11y ago
I'm not sure if the article been updated since you had a look, but the first line of the article refers to the Jihadist group as the "so-called Islamic State". Also I think there is a public interest in knowing that Daesh is apparently switching communication platforms. If there's been an effort to reduce/remove Daesh from Twitter, why couldn't there be a similar strategy with Telegram? You seem to be advocating the security-by-obscurity line, in regards to propaganda. It's out there, and if people want to find it, they don't need to look far.
- KaiserPro 11y ago
  youre not going to destroy Daesh by forcing them to move communications medium to their tenuous followers. They currently have excellent source or arms, money, people and land. The only way to stop them is to deprive them of resources, just like any other war. There is nothing different about daesh. They live, breath, fight and bleed just like any other. They only real difference is that the western media appear to be hell bent on giving them as much airtime as possible.
- jkot 11y ago
  'So called' disclaimer is on almost every BBC article. But it is media like BBC who spread this name in first place. Compare IS with 'Kurdistan'. It is a 'state' somehow similar to IS, but it gets completely different treatment. And they gave step by step manual: Go to app store, install Telegram, search IS channel.
  - gaius 11y ago
    In the Falklands war, the BBC broadcast that the Argentine air force were setting their bomb fuses wrong and their bombs weren't exploding when they hit British ships, and also pre-announced the attack on Goose Green. They're well known for playing both sides against the middle.
    - arethuza 11y ago
      I have read that the Goose Green incident was actually caused by a MoD official releasing something too early - they were just passing on the message. The thing about the bomb fuses was a horrendous mistake “six better fuses and we would have lost” - particularly as there was nothing wrong with the fuses and the Argentinians could have easily fixed this by a simple adjustment.
yoavm 11y ago
You didn't just compared ISIS to the Pirate Bay, did you?
Hermel 11y ago
They have laws, courts, schools, taxes, an army, and a territory. Sounds like a state to me.
- jkot 11y ago
  So has Kurdistan, but we dont hear about every fart they made.
  - korisnik 11y ago
    It's really not clear what point you're trying to make, if any at all. If you don't like reading about ISIS, then don't. It's as easy as that. And it'll make you look a lot less pretentious than you are right now.
    - jkot 11y ago
      I dont like that Islamic radicals are referred to as a 'state'. Usually it takes long time for area to be recognized as 'state', and its first step towards official recognition by other governments.
      - huac 11y ago
        Historically, 'areas' have declared themselves states and killed anybody who disagreed, until people stopped disagreeing.
      - korisnik 11y ago
        >Usually it takes long time for area to be recognized as 'state', Islamic State has existed since about 2006.
        vixen99 11y ago
        But it isn't. If it were, the UK could then remove the citizenship of current UK citizens who become ISIS admirers avowing violence against Britons and Britain. Currently they have difficulty with that because it's not possible to make someone stateless.
nl 11y ago
Raqqah (Raqqa) is (or was) over 250,000 people. Mosul is 1.5 million. That's hardly desert, bandits and pickups (no matter how much we may wish that was true).

KaiserPro 11y ago

I know what the inference is here: give me your back doors, encryption is only for evil people. However you could say the same for electricity, GPS, phones, guns etc.

Canada 11y ago

I didn't think group messages on Telegram had any special security.

yoavm 11y ago
According to the article they are planning to use Telegram channels (which is more like a broadcast list in whatsapp), and not group chat. Doesn't seem like it's meant for internal communication, so I guess that security isn't a top priority for this purpose.

krmmalik 11y ago

Rather convenient that this news comes out at the same time that Obama says he won't ask for keys to encrypted data.

zamalek 11y ago
A: Telegram has no intentional back doors. Any malice on the part of Obama has absolutely no relevance here whatsoever. If you want to disprove me feel free to audit the source[1]. Nobody would have ever been able to ask for keys in the first place, hence, the reason it was purportedly chosen by IS. B: That's pure conjecture and is a conspiracy theory. [1]: https://telegram.org/source https://telegram.org/source
- krmmalik 11y ago
  This isnt about Telegram. It's about BBCs decision to report on IS and what theyre doing. Youre clearly not familiar with IS history. IS was armed and supported by the US (do your research) and the BBC is well known as a US mouth piece. Looking at this as a purely tech debate, one of conjecture or a conspiracy theory is incredibly naive.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - zamalek 11y ago
    Here are the HN guidelines [1]. > This isnt about Telegram. Yes it is: the article is about Telegram and you yourself bought up cryptography keys. You implied that Telegram had some unsubstantiated correlation to the Obama administration (regardless of what previous administrations have done). You're veering wildly off-topic into a typical flamewar topic with no evidence, as well as asserting without justification that I am clueless about IS. > [1]: Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them. That is to say, it's probably best to be done here. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 11y ago

nl 11y ago

No. Nope. Not true. Mostly, anyway. Follow https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar, look at some of the links from Twitter and click around a bit and you'll find plenty of IS sympathisers. However, Twitter is fairly active in shutting them down nowdays. What most do is keep a Tumblr with a link to their Twitter account, and link their Tumblr from Twitter. Then when one shuts down they can reestablish from the other. I'd be surprised if IS aren't using Telegram though. They are pretty active on every other social platform.

krmmalik 11y ago
BBC has lost a lot of credibility lately with the British public. All because of stunts like this: inaccurate, opportunistic reporting. They chose to downplay Corbyn's rise to prominence (he's our equivalent to Bernie Sanders), over represented right-wing figures and have chosen not to cover key issues the masses are talking about -- not too dissimilar to how the mainstream US press hasnt been covering the millionmanmarch this weekend.
- bb101 11y ago
  The irony is that in Conservative circles, the BBC is criticised for devoting too much airtime to Corbyn and his band of swampies, who are woefully unpopular outside the vegetarian dreadlocked middle-class Islington set. Seems like the BBC can't do anything right.
  - krmmalik 11y ago
    Key point being "Conservative circles" , which lets face it arent very big. The conservatives were dreadfukly movked and ridiculed when the arrived in Manchester last week. Most of the working class cant stand them.
    - bb101 11y ago
      Well, except that most of England voted for the Conservatives in the election just a few months ago. They are hugely, yet quietly, supported and popular in any area of Britain that isn't deprived. Manchester, Bradford, Luton and their ilk are all bastions of welfare recipients so it's hardly surprising that the Conservatives aren't popular there.

gaius 11y ago

If this isn't proof that Twitter's business model is doomed then I don't know what is. It would be like the Taliban announcing they'll no longer use Toyotas.

gozo 11y ago

"Telegram itself suggests it will take down illegal material" What does illegal material mean? I guess Germany has lesser free speech than the US, but still it's a messaging service after all. I wonder were Twitter draw the line. They outright welcome many state actors that rival IS if not in scale at least in means. Maybe the line is drawn for them by some friends from the state department?

gil 11y ago
Indeed. It also begs the question of how will the scan for "illegal material"?

mtgx 11y ago

Do they know Telegram is not encrypted E2E by default?

heroh 11y ago

The US government allows the Isalmic State to exist, from providing them training, Toyota trucks + enabling the "black market" sales of oil all this is mostly fear mongering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXe4gy_ABf8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXe4gy_ABf8