4 ms·

I do not want to be anyone's keeper, nor do I want to be kept. All I'm asserting is the moral right to make the most of my life without taking advantage of othe

I do not want to be anyone's keeper, nor do I want to be kept. All I'm asserting is the moral right to make the most of my life without taking advantage of others, or having them take advantage of me. Each of us has the right to exist for our own sake.

Frondo 11y ago
You live in society and are a part of it whether you think it's right or not. That's unavoidable, just like breathing air or drinking water is unavoidable. I'm not really sure what you think you'd gain by somehow being independent from everyone around you. How do you think your life would be better?
- maxharris 11y ago
  "Independence" does not mean living like a hermit, alone in a shack in the mountains. I am all for friendships and collaborations with others, and I recognize the economic benefits of the division of labor. Obviously these relationships do not depend on the government taking from some and giving to others. It is well-known that people had friends, co-workers, families, and specialized occupations in the 19th century, prior to the advent of social programs, the income tax, and public schools. What is the role of government in human relationships? It may surprise you that I think it has an essential role, via the justice system. In a properly functioning state, everyone can count on the government to retaliate against predators. After all, it is only when two strangers know that an objective arbiter will handle disputes between them that Hobbesian nightmares are prevented. When the government goes beyond the role I just outlined, relationships between some people suffer. When the government unjustly takes from some and gives to others, people have no recourse but to see each other as resources or burdens, as threats to be avoided or saps to be taken advantage of. I can think of nothing more corrosive to goodwill and friendship than this, and we see it all around us in the world today.
  - Frondo 11y ago
    Thanks for giving me a reply that you've obviously put some thought into. I think your view that government's proper role is to retaliate against predators is probably one shared by very few. Being more of a pragmatist myself, I'd rather narrow in on views and ideological positions that could get more widespread buy-in. I think you had a good representative line in there, that you think the government's role is to retaliate against predators. I submit that that is a view shared by very few people, and likely no one
    - maxharris 11y ago
      Don't be afraid to adopt a position because you think it will make you a pariah, or because you don't believe that other people are likely to accept it. Neither of those things makes a true thing false. Where would the civil rights movement be if popularity were the yardstick by which an idea is to be judged? Every movement starts out by being unpopular, with ideas no one has heard before. I make no friends among conservatives when I retweet a pro-choice/#shoutyourabortion post on twitter or express support for gay rights. But the fact that some don't like it doesn't matter to me, and if you search deep down, you may find that the immediate approval or buy-in by the majority of others doesn't matter to you either. This might sound like an impractical approach to take, but if your goal is to live in a truly better world, it is by far the most practical thing you can do.

Frondo 11y ago

You live in society and are a part of it whether you think it's right or not. That's unavoidable, just like breathing air or drinking water is unavoidable. I'm not really sure what you think you'd gain by somehow being independent from everyone around you. How do you think your life would be better?

maxharris 11y ago
"Independence" does not mean living like a hermit, alone in a shack in the mountains. I am all for friendships and collaborations with others, and I recognize the economic benefits of the division of labor. Obviously these relationships do not depend on the government taking from some and giving to others. It is well-known that people had friends, co-workers, families, and specialized occupations in the 19th century, prior to the advent of social programs, the income tax, and public schools. What is the role of government in human relationships? It may surprise you that I think it has an essential role, via the justice system. In a properly functioning state, everyone can count on the government to retaliate against predators. After all, it is only when two strangers know that an objective arbiter will handle disputes between them that Hobbesian nightmares are prevented. When the government goes beyond the role I just outlined, relationships between some people suffer. When the government unjustly takes from some and gives to others, people have no recourse but to see each other as resources or burdens, as threats to be avoided or saps to be taken advantage of. I can think of nothing more corrosive to goodwill and friendship than this, and we see it all around us in the world today.
- Frondo 11y ago
  Thanks for giving me a reply that you've obviously put some thought into. I think your view that government's proper role is to retaliate against predators is probably one shared by very few. Being more of a pragmatist myself, I'd rather narrow in on views and ideological positions that could get more widespread buy-in. I think you had a good representative line in there, that you think the government's role is to retaliate against predators. I submit that that is a view shared by very few people, and likely no one
  - maxharris 11y ago
    Don't be afraid to adopt a position because you think it will make you a pariah, or because you don't believe that other people are likely to accept it. Neither of those things makes a true thing false. Where would the civil rights movement be if popularity were the yardstick by which an idea is to be judged? Every movement starts out by being unpopular, with ideas no one has heard before. I make no friends among conservatives when I retweet a pro-choice/#shoutyourabortion post on twitter or express support for gay rights. But the fact that some don't like it doesn't matter to me, and if you search deep down, you may find that the immediate approval or buy-in by the majority of others doesn't matter to you either. This might sound like an impractical approach to take, but if your goal is to live in a truly better world, it is by far the most practical thing you can do.