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Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. W

Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. While I think the world would be far better off if everyone had tried it, I don't think it'd stop wars or anything. At best, it might get people to sit up and think a bit, and turn to rationality for explanations. But in real life, seeing as how one's predispositions get highlighted with acid, we'd probably end up with a lot of people thinking they now know the answers. Or that their trip showed them that (Allah|Zeus|Quantum Democracy|Whatever) is the True God and go all nuts on that. Leary and others made up these unsubstantiated claims about the effects of acid and really tried to sell it as something beyond what it is. It's a damn awesome molecule that does really nifty shit to brains, and certainly bears plenty of research and use. But to say it can cure cancer? Come the fuck on man. That's just new-age heebie jeebie nonsense with no basis in reality. It's why a lot of pro-LSD people are simply not taken seriously, because they forget it's just a molecule messing with brains' perceptions. (Unless you meant cure cancer in the "well it made you feel better, and feeling good is important to health so it might give you a better chance against some diseases", in which case it's not much of a claim and certainly shouldn't be phrased that way. Hey, Apple products can prevent street crime, because the metal bodies might slow down bullets and make an otherwise fatal shot survivable!)

Synaesthesia 11y ago
I think there is definitely some promising legitimate cancer therapy with cannabis. Although I agree with you in general. If you have experienced the effects of MDMA or LSD it's not too far fetched to say that it really can promote world peace.
mistermann 11y ago
> Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. We really don't have that much evidence - at the one Uni they'd done what, 500 trials with mushrooms over 10 years? It's obviously not guaranteed to bring world peace, but I honestly think it could make a huuuuuge portion of the public wake up and start asking questions of their leaders.
- knowaveragejoe 11y ago
  I think asking questions of their leaders is a small byproduct of asking questions about our society in general. Why do we do what we do? When you realize we're all just organisms in a massive terrarium that we all depend upon, some things we do don't make any sense. The leaders are just a manifestation of these behaviorisms that probably started with either ignorance or selfishness.
  - mistermann 11y ago
    > When you realize we're all just organisms in a massive terrarium that we all depend upon, some things we do don't make any sense. True, but the problem is, we'll often never agree which things, even with the help of drugs!
- Bjartr 11y ago
  >> I do not think the evidence supports that. > We really don't have that much evidence So you agree with him then.
  - MichaelGG 11y ago
    I'm saying what little evidence we have (mainly that there are many LSD users and they span quite a bit of viewpoints) does not support the idea that they'll all become "love bombed" messengers for peace or whatever. My implication being that the more evidence we get, the more we'll find out that LSD doesn't just deliver some external value like world peace but enhances ideas already in one's mind. He's saying there's not enough evidence to tell. But with the implication that once we do have evidence, it'll show that LSD really does "love bomb" people.
carapace 11y ago
These chemicals are tools, no more and no less. They should be investigated with intelligence and caution. Take drugs soberly, if at all. I know a few people who have basically ruined their lives though what I would call "abuse" of drugs including MDMA, LSD, cannabis, and nitrous oxide(!) (as opposed to the more obvious drugs like crystal meth, heroin, and crack.) That said, I know of a few people who had cancer, and no longer have cancer, and the treatment plan they followed involved copious quantities of a kind of goo or tar made from cannabis plants. Those three items are facts: They had cancer, they no longer have it, they used ganja and not chemo or radiation. I have no interest in arguing with anyone about this, nor am I attempting to condone or evangelize anything. I offer the above as (admittedly anecdotal) data points for consideration. If you want to know more about this please do your own homework online, no one is hiding this sort of thing from anyone (but themselves.)
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  Those facts, as you put it, really mean nothing other than maybe someone should do a study and see if there's any real correlation. How many other people had cancer, used plenty of cannabis, then died or continued to have cancer? There's billions of people in the world. That means the frequency of "Bad thing, Weird thing, Good thing" will often be nonzero for all sorts of things.
  - cnp 11y ago
    You should listen what people have to say when they describe it as a "Love Bomb", as "Seeing God", etc -- sometimes a little less quantifying can go very far in resolving problems physical or otherwise; the trick is experience and an open mind. The testimonials describing these substances as powerful healing tools is endless -- there is validity in this fact.
    - Nursie 11y ago
      No, there isn't. There is validity in the fact that the substances make people think that they are healing tools. Until or unless there is actually a quantifiable effect it is not a fact that they can be said to heal anything.
WorldWideWayne 11y ago
> we'd probably end up with a lot of people thinking they now know the answers. People thinking that they know things that they actually don't is definitely a problem. I find that it happens way more often in people who have never tried LSD though. People use false assumptions and self-lies all the time to survive this world. Here's an example: > It's why a lot of pro-LSD people are simply not taken seriously, because they forget it's just a molecule messing with brains' perceptions. How do you know that? Science doesn't even know what consciousness is, so what does it mean that you're "messing with perception"? Based on that - I think that you simply don't know and you have no proof of what you're saying.
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  ... There's zero evidence that consciousness exists outside of the physical world. There's plenty of evidence that it does exist as something brains create. There's plenty of evidence that poking it chemically or otherwise causes changes in consciousness. In some cases, scientists have some ideas about how that might sorta happen (like the release of dopamine or serotonin). No one seems to disagree that taking, say, Xanax, does something to brain chemistry and causes e.g. less anxiety. LSD is certainly a physical chemical that goes into physical brains. Yet all of a sudden folks want to introduce a separate magisterium and insist that despite having every appearance of acting on the brain somehow, LSD is special and really does something more. And not because of any extraordinary evidence, but because, while they were tripping, they thought up some cool neato thought like, I dunno, all people are one. A thought they can't verify at all, but makes sense while tripping. And because of that, not only is their neato thought true, but LSD itself must be something paranormal because other drugs don't let them think nonsense is true. That's essentially all of what Leary and others come down to, despite hiding it in a lot more verbiage and nicer sounding ideas. Just because the understanding of consciousness is rather much in its infancy doesn't give people blank checks to make shit up. LSD-fueled and valid-only-with-acid ideas on consciousness should be given as much weight as LSD-fueled pictures of Pluto.
  - kirsebaer 11y ago
    Think about the song Amazing Grace: "How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me; I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see". That was written by a guy who had abandoned his career as the captain of a slave-trading ship after having a spiritual awakening. The transcendental, mystical, transformative, touching-infinity experiences that people report from psychedelics go far beyond any philosophical concepts about "physical reality" or "consciousness". You don't need to hold any particular dogmatic beliefs to try out and perhaps benefit from psychedelics. You might feel at home with the people at /r/RationalPsychonaut: https://www.reddit.com/r/RationalPsychonaut/ https://www.reddit.com/r/RationalPsychonaut/ Of course, you make a lot of good points. People should use rationality and critical thinking. And some psychedelic users can certainly be annoying.
EC1 11y ago
I tripped with a few buddies I haven't seen in years. I'm happily tripping and my friend tries getting all deep on me. When I didn't engage his silly questions, he felt I wasn't on his level and that he really did have all the answers. It was hilarious and sad at the same time.

Synaesthesia 11y ago

I think there is definitely some promising legitimate cancer therapy with cannabis. Although I agree with you in general. If you have experienced the effects of MDMA or LSD it's not too far fetched to say that it really can promote world peace.

mistermann 11y ago

> Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. We really don't have that much evidence - at the one Uni they'd done what, 500 trials with mushrooms over 10 years? It's obviously not guaranteed to bring world peace, but I honestly think it could make a huuuuuge portion of the public wake up and start asking questions of their leaders.

knowaveragejoe 11y ago
I think asking questions of their leaders is a small byproduct of asking questions about our society in general. Why do we do what we do? When you realize we're all just organisms in a massive terrarium that we all depend upon, some things we do don't make any sense. The leaders are just a manifestation of these behaviorisms that probably started with either ignorance or selfishness.
- mistermann 11y ago
  > When you realize we're all just organisms in a massive terrarium that we all depend upon, some things we do don't make any sense. True, but the problem is, we'll often never agree which things, even with the help of drugs!
Bjartr 11y ago
>> I do not think the evidence supports that. > We really don't have that much evidence So you agree with him then.
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  I'm saying what little evidence we have (mainly that there are many LSD users and they span quite a bit of viewpoints) does not support the idea that they'll all become "love bombed" messengers for peace or whatever. My implication being that the more evidence we get, the more we'll find out that LSD doesn't just deliver some external value like world peace but enhances ideas already in one's mind. He's saying there's not enough evidence to tell. But with the implication that once we do have evidence, it'll show that LSD really does "love bomb" people.

carapace 11y ago

These chemicals are tools, no more and no less. They should be investigated with intelligence and caution. Take drugs soberly, if at all. I know a few people who have basically ruined their lives though what I would call "abuse" of drugs including MDMA, LSD, cannabis, and nitrous oxide(!) (as opposed to the more obvious drugs like crystal meth, heroin, and crack.) That said, I know of a few people who had cancer, and no longer have cancer, and the treatment plan they followed involved copious quantities of a kind of goo or tar made from cannabis plants. Those three items are facts: They had cancer, they no longer have it, they used ganja and not chemo or radiation. I have no interest in arguing with anyone about this, nor am I attempting to condone or evangelize anything. I offer the above as (admittedly anecdotal) data points for consideration. If you want to know more about this please do your own homework online, no one is hiding this sort of thing from anyone (but themselves.)

MichaelGG 11y ago
Those facts, as you put it, really mean nothing other than maybe someone should do a study and see if there's any real correlation. How many other people had cancer, used plenty of cannabis, then died or continued to have cancer? There's billions of people in the world. That means the frequency of "Bad thing, Weird thing, Good thing" will often be nonzero for all sorts of things.
- cnp 11y ago
  You should listen what people have to say when they describe it as a "Love Bomb", as "Seeing God", etc -- sometimes a little less quantifying can go very far in resolving problems physical or otherwise; the trick is experience and an open mind. The testimonials describing these substances as powerful healing tools is endless -- there is validity in this fact.
  - Nursie 11y ago
    No, there isn't. There is validity in the fact that the substances make people think that they are healing tools. Until or unless there is actually a quantifiable effect it is not a fact that they can be said to heal anything.

WorldWideWayne 11y ago

> we'd probably end up with a lot of people thinking they now know the answers. People thinking that they know things that they actually don't is definitely a problem. I find that it happens way more often in people who have never tried LSD though. People use false assumptions and self-lies all the time to survive this world. Here's an example: > It's why a lot of pro-LSD people are simply not taken seriously, because they forget it's just a molecule messing with brains' perceptions. How do you know that? Science doesn't even know what consciousness is, so what does it mean that you're "messing with perception"? Based on that - I think that you simply don't know and you have no proof of what you're saying.

MichaelGG 11y ago
... There's zero evidence that consciousness exists outside of the physical world. There's plenty of evidence that it does exist as something brains create. There's plenty of evidence that poking it chemically or otherwise causes changes in consciousness. In some cases, scientists have some ideas about how that might sorta happen (like the release of dopamine or serotonin). No one seems to disagree that taking, say, Xanax, does something to brain chemistry and causes e.g. less anxiety. LSD is certainly a physical chemical that goes into physical brains. Yet all of a sudden folks want to introduce a separate magisterium and insist that despite having every appearance of acting on the brain somehow, LSD is special and really does something more. And not because of any extraordinary evidence, but because, while they were tripping, they thought up some cool neato thought like, I dunno, all people are one. A thought they can't verify at all, but makes sense while tripping. And because of that, not only is their neato thought true, but LSD itself must be something paranormal because other drugs don't let them think nonsense is true. That's essentially all of what Leary and others come down to, despite hiding it in a lot more verbiage and nicer sounding ideas. Just because the understanding of consciousness is rather much in its infancy doesn't give people blank checks to make shit up. LSD-fueled and valid-only-with-acid ideas on consciousness should be given as much weight as LSD-fueled pictures of Pluto.
- kirsebaer 11y ago
  Think about the song Amazing Grace: "How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me; I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see". That was written by a guy who had abandoned his career as the captain of a slave-trading ship after having a spiritual awakening. The transcendental, mystical, transformative, touching-infinity experiences that people report from psychedelics go far beyond any philosophical concepts about "physical reality" or "consciousness". You don't need to hold any particular dogmatic beliefs to try out and perhaps benefit from psychedelics. You might feel at home with the people at /r/RationalPsychonaut: https://www.reddit.com/r/RationalPsychonaut/ https://www.reddit.com/r/RationalPsychonaut/ Of course, you make a lot of good points. People should use rationality and critical thinking. And some psychedelic users can certainly be annoying.

EC1 11y ago

I tripped with a few buddies I haven't seen in years. I'm happily tripping and my friend tries getting all deep on me. When I didn't engage his silly questions, he felt I wasn't on his level and that he really did have all the answers. It was hilarious and sad at the same time.