3 ms·

So to successfully contribute to US based open source projects you need intimate familiarity with US culture and politics not to make a linguistic faux-pas? Got

So to successfully contribute to US based open source projects you need intimate familiarity with US culture and politics not to make a linguistic faux-pas? Got it... but it doesn't feel inclusive to me.

thescribe 11y ago
Inclusivity is making sure no open source anywhere features a shortening of the word 'brother'. If people outside the US don't understand why that's offensive I guess they're bigots. In all seriousness, this has to be the height of meddling for the sake of meddling.
- JanneVee 11y ago
  > If people outside the US don't understand why that's offensive I guess they're bigots. Yeah look at this bigoted Swedish wikipedia article https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bro https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bro > In all seriousness, this has to be the height of meddling for the sake of meddling. For me it is not only meddling. The abbreviation was changed without proper explanation. "I have asked a feminist friend from the North American culture-sphere, and she advised against bro." is devoid of any actual information why it is important to change. I think reasons of "misogynistic" and "offensive" is not enough. Because if we look at the other offensive and unacceptable words I'm aware of I know why they are loaded and how they are perceived badly.
omginternets 11y ago
I think the problem is more general than that, and it has to do with the fact that "SJWs" (for lack of a better term) assume that social justice should be the primary concern of all organizations. In other words, it's not enough to make a good faith effort to be inclusive and kind -- you have to make their kind of absurdly extreme effort, at the expense of an organization's primary operational goal. I think the only appropriate response to this kind of demand is a polite but firm "no".
- JanneVee 11y ago
  So the passive aggressive bullying in this thread for a fairly polite "not interested in this merge" can be the result. https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 Yes the problem is a little general than that. "SJW" are not seeing the problem with behaviour they have, that it can be experienced as exclusive behaviour by those who don't have the appropriate cultural context.
  - omginternets 11y ago
    Oh yes. I'm familiar with that pull-request, but there's no point in being aggressive and combative first. Cross that bridge when you get there.
    - JanneVee 11y ago
      I'm not planning with being combative about it. If it ever happens to me I'll just throw up my hands and walk away. I really love creating software and it is big part of my life. But I will never personally engage in this type of discussion after witnessing this happening in other places in other forms. Those who pick these fights will not see my point of view ever and it will be big waste of energy, which I'll rather spend on creating software. The reason I engage in this now is that I'm at the periphery only observing. It doesn't take that much of my time and energy to write a small commentary on it.
      - omginternets 11y ago
        Those who pick these fights will not see my point of view ever and it will be big waste of energy, which I'll rather spend on creating software. The reason I engage in this now is that I'm at the periphery only observing. It doesn't take that much of my time and energy to write a small commentary on it. I think we're actually in agreement -- I could have written those exact words. If it happens to me, I'll politely say that I'm not interested in making the change, and I'll be ready to shut down the project and move onto something else. Call me vindictive, but I don't particularly feel like yielding, either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

thescribe 11y ago

Inclusivity is making sure no open source anywhere features a shortening of the word 'brother'. If people outside the US don't understand why that's offensive I guess they're bigots. In all seriousness, this has to be the height of meddling for the sake of meddling.

JanneVee 11y ago
> If people outside the US don't understand why that's offensive I guess they're bigots. Yeah look at this bigoted Swedish wikipedia article https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bro https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bro > In all seriousness, this has to be the height of meddling for the sake of meddling. For me it is not only meddling. The abbreviation was changed without proper explanation. "I have asked a feminist friend from the North American culture-sphere, and she advised against bro." is devoid of any actual information why it is important to change. I think reasons of "misogynistic" and "offensive" is not enough. Because if we look at the other offensive and unacceptable words I'm aware of I know why they are loaded and how they are perceived badly.

omginternets 11y ago

I think the problem is more general than that, and it has to do with the fact that "SJWs" (for lack of a better term) assume that social justice should be the primary concern of all organizations. In other words, it's not enough to make a good faith effort to be inclusive and kind -- you have to make their kind of absurdly extreme effort, at the expense of an organization's primary operational goal. I think the only appropriate response to this kind of demand is a polite but firm "no".

JanneVee 11y ago
So the passive aggressive bullying in this thread for a fairly polite "not interested in this merge" can be the result. https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 Yes the problem is a little general than that. "SJW" are not seeing the problem with behaviour they have, that it can be experienced as exclusive behaviour by those who don't have the appropriate cultural context.
- omginternets 11y ago
  Oh yes. I'm familiar with that pull-request, but there's no point in being aggressive and combative first. Cross that bridge when you get there.
  - JanneVee 11y ago
    I'm not planning with being combative about it. If it ever happens to me I'll just throw up my hands and walk away. I really love creating software and it is big part of my life. But I will never personally engage in this type of discussion after witnessing this happening in other places in other forms. Those who pick these fights will not see my point of view ever and it will be big waste of energy, which I'll rather spend on creating software. The reason I engage in this now is that I'm at the periphery only observing. It doesn't take that much of my time and energy to write a small commentary on it.
    - omginternets 11y ago
      Those who pick these fights will not see my point of view ever and it will be big waste of energy, which I'll rather spend on creating software. The reason I engage in this now is that I'm at the periphery only observing. It doesn't take that much of my time and energy to write a small commentary on it. I think we're actually in agreement -- I could have written those exact words. If it happens to me, I'll politely say that I'm not interested in making the change, and I'll be ready to shut down the project and move onto something else. Call me vindictive, but I don't particularly feel like yielding, either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯