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They can trigger a paradigm shift in many other areas, not just mental health care. Except it's so hard to explain this to a 'normal' person, who's never taken

They can trigger a paradigm shift in many other areas, not just mental health care. Except it's so hard to explain this to a 'normal' person, who's never taken any. "If God were to permit you a brief voyage into the divine process, let you whirl for a second into the atomic nucleus or spin you out on a light-year trip through the galaxies, how on earth would you describe what you saw when you got back, breathless, to your office? This metaphor may sound farfetched or irrelevant, but just ask someone who has taken a heavy dose of LSD." - Tim Leary, The politics of ecstasy, 1968 It's similar to the 'overview effect' reported by astronauts who've been to space. Of course it triggers a paradigm shift and 'cures' depression or other mind-loops that we find ourselves in so often. It's good to see that there are more discussions about psychedelics in the scientific community. I suspect there are many (more and more) scientists and academics who use psychedelics so I think we will see more and more material published on this subject, apart from the huge amount of anecdotal material available online. I also suspect that people use more psychedelics now than ever in our history. And it's happening globally. And it's a good thing. Because I believe psychedelics are the mythical 'love bomb' which can stop wars and bring peace to people and other species on Earth. And they could, in theory, cure cancer - certainly the psychological and spiritual effects of the disease, which could bring remission to it's physical manifestation. So yeah, there's lots of research still to be done.

_yosefk 11y ago
So... have you known people who've undergone this chemical love carpet-bombing who are tremendously peaceful, between themselves or with people who were not similarly treated? Because I've known a lot of people who used a variety of drugs and many who swore by LSD, mushrooms, ecstasy or a combination, and they weren't a teeny bit less likely to start petty fights over pretty much nothing than the rest of us, nor were they more free from prejudice towards specific groups of people, etc.
- sanoli 11y ago
  I've known about thirty people who have used Lsd routinely for years, and I have to agree with you. The only significant difference is that some of them talk like it drammatically changes them. The effect doesn't seem much different from the people I know who really like a hobby and exxagerate its effects. I of course know lsd is something serious and psychedelically powerful, and agree it should be studied.
  - marincounty 11y ago
    I am pro drugs. I actually feel most drugs, except antiboiotics, should be available over the counter. That said, the one drug I have seem people injest, and come back slightly different people is LSD. I have never taken the drug, but I had two close, intelligent friends in high school go off to U.C. Santa Cruz and literally come back different people. We were all so young, and still finding ourselfs, but the differences in their behavior was stark, and didn't go away like I thought it would. I still like both individuals, but we don't hang out anymore. One friend asked me why we don't hang out any more, and I never told him the truth. The truth is I didn't mind he was different. I didn't hang with the guy because it took him 30 minutes to review a movie, or offer to work on my computer and screw it up; it was this--he didn't have a verbal filter anymore. He would say weird hurtful things, and I couldn't predict when he would say something beyond weird. I just couldn't overlook what he said anymore. He's actually doing well in the computer industry, and has a family, so maybe it was just me? (I'm am probally the last one who should comment on Psychadellics, I've never tried them. Even when I went through a reckless stage--Psychidellics scared me. Hell, even marihuana has brought on slight panic attacks. Maybe I'm not psychologically adjusted enough to fool with these drugs?)
    - swombat 11y ago
      Not to be overly pedantic, but I think "going to college for a few years" is enough to change someone, no need to ascribe the cause to drugs.
    - jzd 11y ago
      MJ almost always gives me the feeling of heart palpitations, unlike LSD.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      >One friend asked me why we don't hang out any more, and I never told him the truth. Maybe this is the problem? He probably didn't view the things he said as weird or hurtful. If you never told him you viewed them that way, how would he know? What was so weird about thing things he said?
    - 11y ago
- zardo 11y ago
  >So... have you known people who've undergone this chemical love carpet-bombing who are tremendously peaceful, between themselves or with people who were not similarly treated? It's a horrible idea. Beyond the obvious ethical problems with dosing people without their consent, you aren't guaranteed to have a good experience. In fact a positive experience is probably pretty unlikely if you have no idea what's happening to you or why. Uses of psychedelics to treat depression or PTSD are happening during a counseling session, and has apparently had some promising results. Although I'm not sure if they've used a comparable length counseling sessions as a control.
  - _yosefk 11y ago
    I meant that they willingly took it themselves, not that it was administered forcefully. I called it "bombing" because the original comment called it a "love bomb", in all likelihood because of the assumed magnitude of the effect and not because he suggested to force people to take it.
eivarv 11y ago
What is the "spiritual effect" of cancer? And just how do you believe that psychedelics "could bring remission to [cancer's] physical manifestation"?
- omarchowdhury 11y ago
  A spiritual effect of cancer is it reminds the organism of its impermanence. We walk on earth without acknowledging the true significance of impermanence, but of course, it does not necessarily need to take to something as earth shattering as cancer to remind oneself of impermanence. As far as remission, OP could be alluding to 'mind over matter', etc. I could say more, but skeptics gonna skeptic. In these matters there are usually opposing sides which never meet in the middle. One side emphasizing the importance of direct experience and the other side first demanding proofs of that experience before themselves exploring (as if certainty is communicable), a fear based reaction to not simply plunge into the unknown and see beyond recurrent thinking.
  - eivarv 11y ago
    I fail to see how what you're describing can be distinguished from a psychological effect. I don't think anyone disputes the fact that (summed up and oversimplified) attitude matters; but it's not as if attitude matters to the extent that it is more important than the cancer processes themselves. I don't think it's quite as you describe though; the side demanding proofs do emphasize experience (which is what empiricism is built upon), but it demands a certain standard (which is what skepticism is about). Not being so generous towards the other "side", I would suggest that it has a problem with regards to bothering with metacognition, as its sympathizers are often more occupied with speculation and imagination - running their mouths, rather than ensuring that what they say makes any sense. While the adventurous streak in the "experience side" is somewhat admirable, it simply isn't up to par with regards to (standards for) credible claims of truth and knowledge - not to mention that the approach of mindlessly plunging into every unknown might lead to certain death in some cases.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Having cancer fucking sucks. Taking psychedelics might help it suck less.
MichaelGG 11y ago
Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. While I think the world would be far better off if everyone had tried it, I don't think it'd stop wars or anything. At best, it might get people to sit up and think a bit, and turn to rationality for explanations. But in real life, seeing as how one's predispositions get highlighted with acid, we'd probably end up with a lot of people thinking they now know the answers. Or that their trip showed them that (Allah|Zeus|Quantum Democracy|Whatever) is the True God and go all nuts on that. Leary and others made up these unsubstantiated claims about the effects of acid and really tried to sell it as something beyond what it is. It's a damn awesome molecule that does really nifty shit to brains, and certainly bears plenty of research and use. But to say it can cure cancer? Come the fuck on man. That's just new-age heebie jeebie nonsense with no basis in reality. It's why a lot of pro-LSD people are simply not taken seriously, because they forget it's just a molecule messing with brains' perceptions. (Unless you meant cure cancer in the "well it made you feel better, and feeling good is important to health so it might give you a better chance against some diseases", in which case it's not much of a claim and certainly shouldn't be phrased that way. Hey, Apple products can prevent street crime, because the metal bodies might slow down bullets and make an otherwise fatal shot survivable!)
- Synaesthesia 11y ago
  I think there is definitely some promising legitimate cancer therapy with cannabis. Although I agree with you in general. If you have experienced the effects of MDMA or LSD it's not too far fetched to say that it really can promote world peace.
- mistermann 11y ago
  > Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. We really don't have that much evidence - at the one Uni they'd done what, 500 trials with mushrooms over 10 years? It's obviously not guaranteed to bring world peace, but I honestly think it could make a huuuuuge portion of the public wake up and start asking questions of their leaders.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
randomflavor 11y ago
Hmm. Love-Bomb=Ego Loss. Taking that 'to the office' is sustained ego loss. Most people have big egos. Many people have big ego's and low self esteem or high self esteem. That is the problem, and the ego absorbs the new information. Once off the drug, that 'paradigm' shift will be integrated into the same type of thinking they had before, except now they are 'enlightened' and act in a superior way because they have seen the light. You seem to be a seeker, and are not self centered in the way many others are. Do not assume just because you have this experience of the world, men like Jeb Bush, Mao zedong, etc are seekers to a greater truth and will then abide by that. No, they will justify their power seeking behavior. These chemicals will serve great purpose in practiced medicine, just as they have for tens of thousands of years in many societies. Recreational use vs self medicating might get some people there, but ritualized religious use in the context of insight, healing does work in many cases. But to bring a love bomb upon the globe? Not sure about that
vezzy-fnord 11y ago
Well, Tim Leary isn't exactly an objective source for making a case of psychedelic drugs being a tool of human emancipation, not that I have any particular conviction in either direction regarding the topic. Your penultimate paragraph just screams of magical New Age thinking, though.
Nursie 11y ago
I swear, one of the most import pieces of research that needs to be done on them is their capability to induce a false sense of the profound, and make people believe psychedelics will fix everything about the world. Yes, they can be useful, they can make you see yourself differently and see people differently. But they can equally be a pretty blinkenlight show that makes you giggle for hours with friends. Or be distressing for people. More than that, nobody has yet been able to tell me how this post-acid utopia is going to function any differently from what we have now. There's a reason that the majority of post-summer-of-love communes failed.
- chicagorailsdev 11y ago
  It's so refreshing to see a critical take on psychedelics. While psychedelics can make you feel like some insight or thought is incredibly profound, often times it turns out to be incredibly banal when revisited with a sober mind. Don't get me wrong - I've some incredible trips on mushrooms and acid, some of which completely shattered my ego and made me see the world from in a totally different light. But when the afterglow wore off, my "insights" turned out to be really dumb. As in, "the whole world is connected" type of stuff... pretty bland. About 5 years ago my friend tried acid for the first time and enjoyed the "profound insights" a little too much. I know this isn't common but he ended up getting addicted to acid, and proceeded to go on a 10 day long acid fueled frenzy. At the peak of his trip he believed that he was Jesus and that he was here to save mankind. Being the good modern Jesus he thought was, he proceeded to spread his Gospel by trying to friend EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON FACEBOOK. He at one point even posted his credentials online so that anyone and everyone could use his account to add more friends. His behavior was absolutely insane but the acid made him feel like it was "profound". The point I'm trying to make is that while psychedelics can make you feel extraordinary feelings, there's no evidence that the insights gained from tripping have any use in reality.
  - kirsebaer 11y ago
    One suggestion to increase potential practical benefit and decrease chance of "banal" generalities might be to go into the trip with a specific question or problem that you are working on. Some examples from the recent CNN Money story about Silicon Valley executives who take LSD: > An employee of one of the biggest Silicon Valley companies said he recently made a pivotal career decision while under the influence of magic mushrooms -- changing course from a management track and moving into product security. > Meanwhile, in the late '90s, a former high level employee of a major software company (who asked not to be named) said he was taking psychedelics with the "specific intent of working on software problems." On one highly successful trip, he came up with design ideas, features and architectural improvements to a piece of software today used by millions. http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/25/technology/lsd-psychedelics-silicon-valley/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/25/technology/lsd-psychedelics-... Sorry to hear about your friend. It is very important to get some sleep if you feel manic. Also its a good idea to give yourself a few days or more to think before implementing any ideas obtained on psychedelics.
exodust 11y ago
"And they could, in theory, cure cancer...." Did you really just say that? Cancer of the liver; cancer of the rectum; cancer of the [insert body part], has nothing to do with the actions that psychedelics have on your body. Psychedelics are for the brain and mind, not the abnormal cells attacking your rectum. The only mention of cancer in the article is treating cancer related anxiety. Getting high and curing cancer at the same time wasn't part of the research. Mentioning such ridiculous ideas only poisons the discussion, and drags the legitimate scientific effort through the mud of false belief, back down to the bottom of the reputation barrel.
- WorldWideWayne 11y ago
  I'm not defending the GP's statement about curing cancer, but could you explain your position that "things that affect the brain/mind" cannot affect "insert body part"? How do you know that? Are you saying that the brain/mind have no effect on the body? Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum. At that point, your statement will be more valuable to me than the GP's. As of now, it's at equal value.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    did you just say that negative thinking can cause cancer?
    - WorldWideWayne 11y ago
      I did not.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - fossuser 11y ago
    > Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum. Proving a negative isn't typically the best scientific approach. It'd be on the person making the dramatic claims to offer evidence. There's a lot of evidence about how cancer cells work and little (if any) gives reason to suspect some sort of conscious connection would affect it. Though I think there is some data that people are more likely to recover if they feel more confident or at least not hopeless, but can't remember where I read about that. There was also something recently about an unexpected immune 'tube' to the brain or something and I think there's a positive correlation with being happy and getting sick less often. All this is still a pretty far cry from claiming that psychedelics are likely to cure cancer. Stating that the negative can't be proven either does not make both arguments equivalent.
fsloth 11y ago
Massive drug use is usually a symptom of unsatisfying social conditions. Personally, I would find it less than satisfying if civilaztions culmination was drug induced contentednes to poor living conditions instead of actually fixing those conditions to be humanly satisfying. Instead of recreational tripping because everyday life is so mentally stunting I would dream of a world where everyday life is personally satisfying to most. That said, I have nothing against medicational nor recreational tripping - but I would be aware that those are not necessarily fixing the conditions but only changing the perception of them. And sometimes it indeed is only our perception that needs fixing. But in some cases it would be good to fix the source of angst as well.
- kirsebaer 11y ago
  A lot of people feel that they get new ideas and solutions to problems while on psychedelics.
  - fsloth 11y ago
    I think that's a bit anecdotal. Sure, there is the lore of the systems programmer who took LSD (I wonder if he reads HN :) ) and solved his design task elegantly. But to actually claim that psychedelics makes one more creative would require psychological studies with blinds. You take the sugar pill, I'll eat the mushroom - and vice versa. Which could be done, there are metrics and tests for that - if and when the stuff becomes less controversial. A lot of people also get new ideas and solutions to problems after a good nights sleep. I knew a person in university who swore hangovers were the most creative period for him. Humans are capable of pretty friggin amazing things au naturel - drugs can modulate performance, but to draw any conclusions in the large would require actual science to draw a distinction between personal learned habits and reproducible effects.
- codeshaman 11y ago
  Oh, but that's the whole paradox of this life - 'satisfaction' is a moving target, not a fixed point. In fact, this is what life is about - getting from the current 'not so satisfied' point to the next 'a bit more satisfied'. First we have our bodies - which need food and shelter and can get sick and hurt. So one of our tasks in life is to constantly keep our bodies satisfied - hunger, thirst, piss, shit, cold, hot, pain, horny. This takes a lot of our energy/time. Then we have the effects of mortality - parents, children, friends, pets - every living being dies eventually and this generates suffering inside us (unless we are the one dying, which generates suffering inside everyone we love). Then we have the whole of our society - competition, job, class struggle, bugs in our software... too many to enumerate. Total satisfaction ('bliss') is only possible for short periods of time (until hunger strikes or the bladder's full) and it's a function of a realisation, of letting go, of simplifying the requirements for 'satisfied'. This is what the monks do - they let go of everything 'worldly' in exchange for a much simpler achievement of 'satisfied'. But then, of course, we don't want to live like monks, so we want more comfort and hence a more complex problem to solve.
eternalban 11y ago
Re "divine process". Please refer to demonstration made by Ram Daas's guru in regards to artificial means of touching God.

_yosefk 11y ago

So... have you known people who've undergone this chemical love carpet-bombing who are tremendously peaceful, between themselves or with people who were not similarly treated? Because I've known a lot of people who used a variety of drugs and many who swore by LSD, mushrooms, ecstasy or a combination, and they weren't a teeny bit less likely to start petty fights over pretty much nothing than the rest of us, nor were they more free from prejudice towards specific groups of people, etc.

sanoli 11y ago
I've known about thirty people who have used Lsd routinely for years, and I have to agree with you. The only significant difference is that some of them talk like it drammatically changes them. The effect doesn't seem much different from the people I know who really like a hobby and exxagerate its effects. I of course know lsd is something serious and psychedelically powerful, and agree it should be studied.
- marincounty 11y ago
  I am pro drugs. I actually feel most drugs, except antiboiotics, should be available over the counter. That said, the one drug I have seem people injest, and come back slightly different people is LSD. I have never taken the drug, but I had two close, intelligent friends in high school go off to U.C. Santa Cruz and literally come back different people. We were all so young, and still finding ourselfs, but the differences in their behavior was stark, and didn't go away like I thought it would. I still like both individuals, but we don't hang out anymore. One friend asked me why we don't hang out any more, and I never told him the truth. The truth is I didn't mind he was different. I didn't hang with the guy because it took him 30 minutes to review a movie, or offer to work on my computer and screw it up; it was this--he didn't have a verbal filter anymore. He would say weird hurtful things, and I couldn't predict when he would say something beyond weird. I just couldn't overlook what he said anymore. He's actually doing well in the computer industry, and has a family, so maybe it was just me? (I'm am probally the last one who should comment on Psychadellics, I've never tried them. Even when I went through a reckless stage--Psychidellics scared me. Hell, even marihuana has brought on slight panic attacks. Maybe I'm not psychologically adjusted enough to fool with these drugs?)
  - swombat 11y ago
    Not to be overly pedantic, but I think "going to college for a few years" is enough to change someone, no need to ascribe the cause to drugs.
  - jzd 11y ago
    MJ almost always gives me the feeling of heart palpitations, unlike LSD.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    >One friend asked me why we don't hang out any more, and I never told him the truth. Maybe this is the problem? He probably didn't view the things he said as weird or hurtful. If you never told him you viewed them that way, how would he know? What was so weird about thing things he said?
  - 11y ago
zardo 11y ago
>So... have you known people who've undergone this chemical love carpet-bombing who are tremendously peaceful, between themselves or with people who were not similarly treated? It's a horrible idea. Beyond the obvious ethical problems with dosing people without their consent, you aren't guaranteed to have a good experience. In fact a positive experience is probably pretty unlikely if you have no idea what's happening to you or why. Uses of psychedelics to treat depression or PTSD are happening during a counseling session, and has apparently had some promising results. Although I'm not sure if they've used a comparable length counseling sessions as a control.
- _yosefk 11y ago
  I meant that they willingly took it themselves, not that it was administered forcefully. I called it "bombing" because the original comment called it a "love bomb", in all likelihood because of the assumed magnitude of the effect and not because he suggested to force people to take it.

eivarv 11y ago

What is the "spiritual effect" of cancer? And just how do you believe that psychedelics "could bring remission to [cancer's] physical manifestation"?

omarchowdhury 11y ago
A spiritual effect of cancer is it reminds the organism of its impermanence. We walk on earth without acknowledging the true significance of impermanence, but of course, it does not necessarily need to take to something as earth shattering as cancer to remind oneself of impermanence. As far as remission, OP could be alluding to 'mind over matter', etc. I could say more, but skeptics gonna skeptic. In these matters there are usually opposing sides which never meet in the middle. One side emphasizing the importance of direct experience and the other side first demanding proofs of that experience before themselves exploring (as if certainty is communicable), a fear based reaction to not simply plunge into the unknown and see beyond recurrent thinking.
- eivarv 11y ago
  I fail to see how what you're describing can be distinguished from a psychological effect. I don't think anyone disputes the fact that (summed up and oversimplified) attitude matters; but it's not as if attitude matters to the extent that it is more important than the cancer processes themselves. I don't think it's quite as you describe though; the side demanding proofs do emphasize experience (which is what empiricism is built upon), but it demands a certain standard (which is what skepticism is about). Not being so generous towards the other "side", I would suggest that it has a problem with regards to bothering with metacognition, as its sympathizers are often more occupied with speculation and imagination - running their mouths, rather than ensuring that what they say makes any sense. While the adventurous streak in the "experience side" is somewhat admirable, it simply isn't up to par with regards to (standards for) credible claims of truth and knowledge - not to mention that the approach of mindlessly plunging into every unknown might lead to certain death in some cases.
DanBC 11y ago
Having cancer fucking sucks. Taking psychedelics might help it suck less.

MichaelGG 11y ago

Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. While I think the world would be far better off if everyone had tried it, I don't think it'd stop wars or anything. At best, it might get people to sit up and think a bit, and turn to rationality for explanations. But in real life, seeing as how one's predispositions get highlighted with acid, we'd probably end up with a lot of people thinking they now know the answers. Or that their trip showed them that (Allah|Zeus|Quantum Democracy|Whatever) is the True God and go all nuts on that. Leary and others made up these unsubstantiated claims about the effects of acid and really tried to sell it as something beyond what it is. It's a damn awesome molecule that does really nifty shit to brains, and certainly bears plenty of research and use. But to say it can cure cancer? Come the fuck on man. That's just new-age heebie jeebie nonsense with no basis in reality. It's why a lot of pro-LSD people are simply not taken seriously, because they forget it's just a molecule messing with brains' perceptions. (Unless you meant cure cancer in the "well it made you feel better, and feeling good is important to health so it might give you a better chance against some diseases", in which case it's not much of a claim and certainly shouldn't be phrased that way. Hey, Apple products can prevent street crime, because the metal bodies might slow down bullets and make an otherwise fatal shot survivable!)

Synaesthesia 11y ago
I think there is definitely some promising legitimate cancer therapy with cannabis. Although I agree with you in general. If you have experienced the effects of MDMA or LSD it's not too far fetched to say that it really can promote world peace.
mistermann 11y ago
> Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. We really don't have that much evidence - at the one Uni they'd done what, 500 trials with mushrooms over 10 years? It's obviously not guaranteed to bring world peace, but I honestly think it could make a huuuuuge portion of the public wake up and start asking questions of their leaders.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

randomflavor 11y ago

Hmm. Love-Bomb=Ego Loss. Taking that 'to the office' is sustained ego loss. Most people have big egos. Many people have big ego's and low self esteem or high self esteem. That is the problem, and the ego absorbs the new information. Once off the drug, that 'paradigm' shift will be integrated into the same type of thinking they had before, except now they are 'enlightened' and act in a superior way because they have seen the light. You seem to be a seeker, and are not self centered in the way many others are. Do not assume just because you have this experience of the world, men like Jeb Bush, Mao zedong, etc are seekers to a greater truth and will then abide by that. No, they will justify their power seeking behavior. These chemicals will serve great purpose in practiced medicine, just as they have for tens of thousands of years in many societies. Recreational use vs self medicating might get some people there, but ritualized religious use in the context of insight, healing does work in many cases. But to bring a love bomb upon the globe? Not sure about that

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

Well, Tim Leary isn't exactly an objective source for making a case of psychedelic drugs being a tool of human emancipation, not that I have any particular conviction in either direction regarding the topic. Your penultimate paragraph just screams of magical New Age thinking, though.

Nursie 11y ago

I swear, one of the most import pieces of research that needs to be done on them is their capability to induce a false sense of the profound, and make people believe psychedelics will fix everything about the world. Yes, they can be useful, they can make you see yourself differently and see people differently. But they can equally be a pretty blinkenlight show that makes you giggle for hours with friends. Or be distressing for people. More than that, nobody has yet been able to tell me how this post-acid utopia is going to function any differently from what we have now. There's a reason that the majority of post-summer-of-love communes failed.

chicagorailsdev 11y ago
It's so refreshing to see a critical take on psychedelics. While psychedelics can make you feel like some insight or thought is incredibly profound, often times it turns out to be incredibly banal when revisited with a sober mind. Don't get me wrong - I've some incredible trips on mushrooms and acid, some of which completely shattered my ego and made me see the world from in a totally different light. But when the afterglow wore off, my "insights" turned out to be really dumb. As in, "the whole world is connected" type of stuff... pretty bland. About 5 years ago my friend tried acid for the first time and enjoyed the "profound insights" a little too much. I know this isn't common but he ended up getting addicted to acid, and proceeded to go on a 10 day long acid fueled frenzy. At the peak of his trip he believed that he was Jesus and that he was here to save mankind. Being the good modern Jesus he thought was, he proceeded to spread his Gospel by trying to friend EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON FACEBOOK. He at one point even posted his credentials online so that anyone and everyone could use his account to add more friends. His behavior was absolutely insane but the acid made him feel like it was "profound". The point I'm trying to make is that while psychedelics can make you feel extraordinary feelings, there's no evidence that the insights gained from tripping have any use in reality.
- kirsebaer 11y ago
  One suggestion to increase potential practical benefit and decrease chance of "banal" generalities might be to go into the trip with a specific question or problem that you are working on. Some examples from the recent CNN Money story about Silicon Valley executives who take LSD: > An employee of one of the biggest Silicon Valley companies said he recently made a pivotal career decision while under the influence of magic mushrooms -- changing course from a management track and moving into product security. > Meanwhile, in the late '90s, a former high level employee of a major software company (who asked not to be named) said he was taking psychedelics with the "specific intent of working on software problems." On one highly successful trip, he came up with design ideas, features and architectural improvements to a piece of software today used by millions. http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/25/technology/lsd-psychedelics-silicon-valley/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/25/technology/lsd-psychedelics-... Sorry to hear about your friend. It is very important to get some sleep if you feel manic. Also its a good idea to give yourself a few days or more to think before implementing any ideas obtained on psychedelics.

exodust 11y ago

"And they could, in theory, cure cancer...." Did you really just say that? Cancer of the liver; cancer of the rectum; cancer of the [insert body part], has nothing to do with the actions that psychedelics have on your body. Psychedelics are for the brain and mind, not the abnormal cells attacking your rectum. The only mention of cancer in the article is treating cancer related anxiety. Getting high and curing cancer at the same time wasn't part of the research. Mentioning such ridiculous ideas only poisons the discussion, and drags the legitimate scientific effort through the mud of false belief, back down to the bottom of the reputation barrel.

WorldWideWayne 11y ago
I'm not defending the GP's statement about curing cancer, but could you explain your position that "things that affect the brain/mind" cannot affect "insert body part"? How do you know that? Are you saying that the brain/mind have no effect on the body? Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum. At that point, your statement will be more valuable to me than the GP's. As of now, it's at equal value.
- DanBC 11y ago
  did you just say that negative thinking can cause cancer?
  - WorldWideWayne 11y ago
    I did not.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- fossuser 11y ago
  > Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum. Proving a negative isn't typically the best scientific approach. It'd be on the person making the dramatic claims to offer evidence. There's a lot of evidence about how cancer cells work and little (if any) gives reason to suspect some sort of conscious connection would affect it. Though I think there is some data that people are more likely to recover if they feel more confident or at least not hopeless, but can't remember where I read about that. There was also something recently about an unexpected immune 'tube' to the brain or something and I think there's a positive correlation with being happy and getting sick less often. All this is still a pretty far cry from claiming that psychedelics are likely to cure cancer. Stating that the negative can't be proven either does not make both arguments equivalent.

fsloth 11y ago

Massive drug use is usually a symptom of unsatisfying social conditions. Personally, I would find it less than satisfying if civilaztions culmination was drug induced contentednes to poor living conditions instead of actually fixing those conditions to be humanly satisfying. Instead of recreational tripping because everyday life is so mentally stunting I would dream of a world where everyday life is personally satisfying to most. That said, I have nothing against medicational nor recreational tripping - but I would be aware that those are not necessarily fixing the conditions but only changing the perception of them. And sometimes it indeed is only our perception that needs fixing. But in some cases it would be good to fix the source of angst as well.

kirsebaer 11y ago
A lot of people feel that they get new ideas and solutions to problems while on psychedelics.
- fsloth 11y ago
  I think that's a bit anecdotal. Sure, there is the lore of the systems programmer who took LSD (I wonder if he reads HN :) ) and solved his design task elegantly. But to actually claim that psychedelics makes one more creative would require psychological studies with blinds. You take the sugar pill, I'll eat the mushroom - and vice versa. Which could be done, there are metrics and tests for that - if and when the stuff becomes less controversial. A lot of people also get new ideas and solutions to problems after a good nights sleep. I knew a person in university who swore hangovers were the most creative period for him. Humans are capable of pretty friggin amazing things au naturel - drugs can modulate performance, but to draw any conclusions in the large would require actual science to draw a distinction between personal learned habits and reproducible effects.
codeshaman 11y ago
Oh, but that's the whole paradox of this life - 'satisfaction' is a moving target, not a fixed point. In fact, this is what life is about - getting from the current 'not so satisfied' point to the next 'a bit more satisfied'. First we have our bodies - which need food and shelter and can get sick and hurt. So one of our tasks in life is to constantly keep our bodies satisfied - hunger, thirst, piss, shit, cold, hot, pain, horny. This takes a lot of our energy/time. Then we have the effects of mortality - parents, children, friends, pets - every living being dies eventually and this generates suffering inside us (unless we are the one dying, which generates suffering inside everyone we love). Then we have the whole of our society - competition, job, class struggle, bugs in our software... too many to enumerate. Total satisfaction ('bliss') is only possible for short periods of time (until hunger strikes or the bladder's full) and it's a function of a realisation, of letting go, of simplifying the requirements for 'satisfied'. This is what the monks do - they let go of everything 'worldly' in exchange for a much simpler achievement of 'satisfied'. But then, of course, we don't want to live like monks, so we want more comfort and hence a more complex problem to solve.

eternalban 11y ago

Re "divine process". Please refer to demonstration made by Ram Daas's guru in regards to artificial means of touching God.